How do I help my five-year-old who's being repeatedly wound up by a class mate?

[Rumbled]

DS, who's nearly six and pretty settled at school, has been increasingly on the receiving end of wind-ups and name-calling from one of the boys in his class, who he's normally good friends with. This friend seems to be possessive of another boy in DS's class, and doesn't seem to like it that DS wants to play with him too.

DS has become quite upset about this lately, so I spoke to his teacher earlier this week. She's been wonderful, and has spoken to all the children concerned and is keeping an eye on the situation. But DS is still feeling wobbly about this friend. He doesn't know how to handle the things he says (and it seems, is still sometimes saying), and I - being fairly sensitive and an easy wind-up myself - don't have all the answers.

I've tried to explain to DS that he has a choice in how he responds to this 'friend'; that he doesn't have to believe what he's saying. We've talked about ignoring; about saying confidently, "That's not true. I can play with [other child]." But I feel my support's a bit inadequate.

So, when things like this are repeatedly said to DS ...

"You're at the bottom of [other friend]'s friend list."

"You're a wimp because you won't speak in front of the class."

"You can't come first or second in this race; only third after me and [other child]."

"You're not allowed to play with [so and so]."

"Your friend can't join in our game."

... what advice can I give him on how to handle it? DS takes this kind of thing so personally, but I suppose he's going to come up against it again and again in school, so needs some tricks up his sleeve on how to respond.

Thanks for any ideas.

watching with interest. sorry don't have any recommendations. ds1(6) yr 1 told me today that the other friend of his best friend and then his best friend aswell, were saying nasty things:
that they would smash his glassses; that his glasses were thick and stupid; that he is fat and stupid etc etc - even though he's skinny as a rake.
not sure what to do myself. i want him to have the self respect to tell his best friend to go take a hike. a friend who laughs at someone else saying this is no friend. this is the third time since they started in reception.

OP, has ds had problems with this boy before ?

Ah, sorry to hear your DS is having similar trouble, Oblomov. It's upsetting, isn't it, for them, and you.

DS had a blip with this boy earlier in the year. What is awkward is that I am friends with his mum. Previously, I tried to raise it with her, as carefully and diplomatically as I possibly could, and it went down like a lead balloon. She felt they should be left to sort things out themselves - that they'll grow in confidence this way. I agree with her up to her a point, but in this particular situation, this approach clearly isn't working, is it?

And what's more, this boy is generally thought of as a model pupil - he's bright and well-behaved (when the teacher's looking!), and recently won the best-pupil-of-the-day-type-award-thingy - which I think confused the hell out of DS: he's mean, and the teacher thinks he's wonderful?!

I'm with you on the telling him to take a hike plan, except I'm a grown-up and I find this hard sometimes.

We'll have a parents evening soon, so I'll have a chance to chat about it some more then, and also to ask what kind of response to teasing the school would endorse.

Op, its so hard. dh is very quick witted and normally fires people down when they say these kind of things to him.
but i can't get my 6 yr old to come up with witty responses to this boy. besides its not his nature - else we wouldn't be in this problem would we.
agree with asking school how to handle it.

Anyone else got any ideas?

The key thing I think is to laugh or ignore the other boy. But if he's still getting upset, then I'd go back to the teacher too. After all, even though it's only verbal, it's still bullying. At DS's school if the children use words such as 'idiot' or 'stupid' or are mean to others, the children know if they don't stop when asked to, they should go and tell a grown up. DS seems to have sorted similar problems to your son by doing this. It's about being kind really, and they're still so little. Hope you get it sorted for him.

I think that these kind of kids only want to get a retaliation if your ds just says yeah whatever to him then I think he will lose interest .....either that or get ds to punch him in the nose .

IME, the best way these things get sorted is through 'circle time' or equivalent - not because the perpetrator takes any notice, but it's like drink-driving campaigns - small children, having earnestly discussed it at circle time, decide name-calling is socially unacceptable in their 'tribe' and the tribe turns on those who fail to conform.

(not that it always works, of course - see my thread about the next level of subtlety - as exercised by an 8yo, who similarly manages to never actually get into trouble, although I don't think any of the teachers like him much)

It's heartbreaking, isn't it? Agree circle time is the best way of dealing with it properly. Would teach my 3 year old to say 'don't say that to me. that's not very nice' or maybe 'if you say those things to me, I am going to walk away'??

or like 'whatever'. and walk away.

DON'T try to teach him to say something 'smart alecky' back. It just doesn't work and ends up making it worse.

You could try and explain that he is 'joking' and doesn't really mean it - he is trying to make him laugh, but it's not very funny, is it?

Don't forget the other kids are only 5 too and don't really know why they are saying it. It's probably because they want to be friends but don't know how. Have had some success with 'don't hit me, why don't we go and look and books instead?' sounds weird, but dd has little brother who she diverts this way, and it works at nursery too. Of course this is 2-4 yrs and learning social boundaries though.

Assertive not aggressive or passive (is what we teach the kids).

Yes, sounds like it's been a good idea to involve the teacher but if this happens at a time when the teacher isn't around, then it can be reassuring to have some phrases prepared. Since the comments have been belittling, something robust, said confidently, probably is required:

"Stop being jealous, it's silly. We can all play together"

"XX, you're full of rubbish"

"You really are being unpleasant."

"Who cares what you think."

Thanks for some helpful advice.

I'm writing up some of these ideas for DS, in clear text in big speech bubbles with relevant pictures, to help them sink in. I thought we could do a bit of role play later. First, I can be the other kid and show him how much I'm trying for a reaction - so he can see what this kind of kid is trying to achieve. Then we can swap and he can pretend to be mean to me and I'll try out some of these responses, and he can (hopefully!) see that they make it harder for him to wind me up. And then we could try him using them with me doing the (pretend) winding up. If his concentration lasts that long!

nickchick, you jest, but that was my brother's first bit of advice. Until relatively recently, I suppose boys would have scrapped about this sort of thing to iron it out. I'm not condoning this, but with this not being an option, with not wanting to encourage DS to run to the teacher too often (for which he'd also no doubt get ribbed), and with school being such a feminized environment, it's difficult to know what to suggest instead. Thank God my brother lives in another country and can't pull DS to one side for a pep talk.

stealthsquiggle and Adair, DS's teacher said she has talked to the whole class about kindness and friendliness this week - maybe in "circle time"? But she is going for that approach, and is genuinely very sympathetic and helpful and approachable on this, which is great. I just want DS to be able to start learning to stand on his own two feet too.

And Adair, I don't think this boy is joking. I don't think the things he keeps saying to DS are particularly funny, or likely to illicit a laugh from anyone. They're unkind and designed to exclude/belittle DS.

Thanks for the reminder that they're only five. I guess it takes time to civilise these little people.

No, I know, I meant to explain to ds that he doesn't MEAN it - he doesn't really think he is fat or ugly or whatever. He is just saying the words to try and get a reaction. Joking is the wrong word, yes. I was trying to think how I'd explain to dd - but she is a bit younger. It is so hard, why DO kids behave like this to others?

I think your roleplay approach is a good one, and agree he needs to learn to stand on his own two feet. Can you show him how to be confident and assertive using eye contact and body language? I guess he can't control what the other child says/does, but he CAN control what HE does and says. So he cna always move away or say 'I am not listening to you.'

I couldn't let this pass as it is exactly the same issue as I have come on here to post for advice on.

My DS is 6, in year 2, and his 'best friend' since nursery has suddenly turned on him and is calling him names, kicking and pushing him and then going and 'telling' on him for things that (my ds says) he hasn't done. This seems to have come on since my ds has made friends with another child and also his 'best friend' has also made friends with a new boy to their class. Are you still with me here?!

My problem is that I am very close friends with my DS's 'best friend's' mum and though I have tried to talk to her about it she is quite strict and goes off at him quite strongly. Her son then tells her that my son has done XYorZ to make him react, in my view as a form of defence to her. This little boy is very bright and knows how to divert attention from himself on to another person.

I absolutely appreciate that my DS could be somehow provoking this behaviour, and I am seeing him through the rosy glow of a mother's eyes BUT he is genuinely very upset and avoids his 'friend' at the school gates, and I have witnessed this boy being spiteful in the past, so my gut feeling is that he is telling the truth and this boy is being mean to my DS just for fun.

My DS told me tonight that he knew that his friend was clever enough not to be unkind to him in front of his mum so his mum thinks that he is a good boy. He also told me that he didn't want him to come to his birthday but he knew he had to ask him as we are now friends as a family, but he wanted me to watch all the time to make sure that this boy was not mean to him.

Thank you if you have stayed with me for this long! What do I do here? Do I speak to his mum again and risk the horrible tit for tat stories again and things not really getting anywhere? Do I speak to the teacher or is that just too awful a thing to do when I know his mum so well? I have told my DS to tell him strongly 'I don't like it when you do/say that to me' but he is not a confrontational or confident child and he just says 'I can't'.

My greatest fear is that this boy knows so much about my ds and can hit him where it hurts, if you know what I mean. It's the thing with 'best friend, worst enemy', and I want to stop it before it gets any worse.

Please help me with your thoughts.