Reception - they've got to be kidding me...

[emy72]

I have just received DD's school profile. They assessed her in all 6 areas of learning in October and then again now, showing a wonderful progress from 2s and 3s to 6s, 7s, 8s and even a 9. Well it's absolute TOSH.
I am fuming. There is no way she was a 2 and 3 at the beginning of reception, looking at all the descriptors - and I have her nursery report to back it up (from the same school!), she was at least a 6 and 7 in everything. So what I am saying here is that she has made very little progress although looking at her report the school looks fantastic having brought her on so much...
This is an absolute farse. What am I going to do about this? It's really alarming as I already suspected that my DD had learnt very little - ok she is having fun, but she is the sort of girl that would have fun anywhere given a room full of children - I just get the feeling she has been left to fester, academically speaking - she has been on ORT level 2 since the beginning - not gone up a level at all, despite reading most books at home - and number work has stayed the same too since the beginning. I am absolutely fuming, what would you do?
Sorry for the long rant xx

I see no reason why children can't learn all sorts about being social and also have a bit of stimulation. The teaching must be aimed at some children - so they are allowed to learn something - why can't there be some genuine differentiation to give all children something to learn? Reading for example is an empowering and wonderful thing - why treat it like some sort of necessary evil - best put off for as long as possible. As if you are pushy for wanting your child to be given the access to the world out there that getting on in reading gives. I'd like my child to feed the ducks after school and also spend some time curling up with a book she can read because shes been taught to. This is possible in Reception.

But who assesses these levels ? I ask because my DD is about a year behind her peers and it's plain for all to see and yet in the state system she was "average".

Seems to me the teachers, like turkeys aren't likely to vote for Christmas and unless the child is SEN they will mark down average for everyone.

I agree emy72 that the assessment thing is a complete farce. I also find it interesting that the Labour govmt uses these same statistics as the basis for justification of the efficacy of their policies. It's not just about individual schools standings in the league tables, but also the circuitous underpinning for educational policy decisions.

That said, I also agree with seeker and others that it's hard to imagine a 5 year old "festering academically."

I feel great sympathy for teachers who are caught up in the whole statistical mirage rather than just being able to get on with it.

I find it very easy to picture a 5 year old 'festering academically' - my own for example. I'm all for the non academic and play based things she does in Reception (all lovely and very appropriate) but I must say she has learnt virtually NOTHING academically during her Reception year - I'm struggling to think of a single thing. She is September born and went to school 'over ready' but we had purposefully not taught her ourselves which I now regret. A friend said to me. "In their pre-school years you do what you can so that they can 'take off' at school and then when they go to school you find they are expected to hover around while everyone catches up." I have found this to be so true!
My daughter seems like a thirsty sponge that the school is totally unwilling to help. As I said literacy and numeracy aren't evil things crushing a child's development. They can be fun, stimulating and fulfilling to learn. Why not teach them?

I was unfair, my daughter has learnt some bits and pieces at school. I don't like exaggerating - I gave up in late October and started to teach reading myself and have finally crumbled and started maths too, last week. In these areas the school has not helped her.

But don't they teach them through play? Dd atm has been doing numeracy but it's been in the form of making chocolates out of playdough and putting them in chocolate boxes and then finding out how many in each box and how many will be left if they pretend to eat 4 of them etc. Then they do lots of baking, involving weighing and measuring, and they've made a post office and have learned about money and buying things and how many pennies you need to buy a stamp etc etc. DD2 thinks she's playing but it's all building up her understanding and skills.

And I do agree with you about reading - but having gone in and done reading every week with class R, they're so different - some of them are just simply not ready - they can't make the connection between the shapes on the page adn the letter sounds, and it's not something which can be hurried or forced, so, they read a bit every day, and learn slowly, because they have time. Dd is speeding along with her reading and I do see that if you have a child who just laps it up it's more frustrating to see them killing time, but then you just do lots of reading at home.

Beezmum, has she really learnt nothing?? Nothing at all?

By mumsnet standards I guess you could say my DD has learnt 'nothing' in reception, in the sense that she's not reading yet and still learning to recognise some letters and numbers. BUT her handwriting has progressed and she's learnt how to add up and take away. She's learnt about space and pet animals - the two 'themes' she's had so far. She's become more confident. She's learnt how to skip and how to wipe her own bum (I'm particularly pleased with this one ).

I have to be honest, this all feels as valid to me as learning to read.

We are in Wales too though so none of this ORT/SATS/League table insanity.

Totally agree with you Mrs Gravy.

I've got 3 DC in the Foundation Phase, and they do fantastic fun stuff like modelling letters out of moonsand, and role playing stories they have read. They go to the beach and write words in the sand using shells, or go for walks and find different shaped leaves.

They can read and write (well the eldest two can, the youngest has only just turned 4 so can only do a bit) in two languages, and the eldest can do KS2 maths, so they must have been learning something whilst playing.

But is the child festering or is the parent festering? Emy72 describes her daughter as having fun, and the whole point of EYE is learning through play in preparation for more formal academic learning.

I think play is very good at introducing or reinforcing mathematical concepts but not at all good at helping them gain proficiency. We all do stuff at home that involves numbers but to be honest it rarely leads to firm proficient understanding. Fine if you're not really serious about them grasping the concepts you are teaching, just want exposure before really teaching the stuff in yr 1 but in maths nothing beats LOTS of practice (I've learnt from dd1)and reading is also a skill. generally the more you do the better you get.
In dd2's case, as all modelling, sand play etc has been to help the class understand addition up to 5 and she seemed to understand all that from nursery. Its nice fun and not entirely pointless, but just not at her level and not teaching her anything she didn't know already. They don't really teach handwriting which dd2 really would benefit from and as most topics are story based theres not a lot of learnng about the world. She moans alot about school being boring. What must it be like to be in a class everyday, day in day out, being taught things you can already do? Its not so bad when its playbased but that just obscures the fact that the goals of that play activity are inappropriate for her but at least shes entertained!
We have been very unlucky with dd2's schooling. Dd1 had a lovely time in reception and learnt loads as well. Dd2 has always benefited from an older sister and been way more forward but no, school has not really done much at all for her.

Zazizoma has apoint. Anyone that gets very wound up by their children's reception schooling is likely to be the sort thats alot more interested than the average in their children's education which can get obsessive. Doesn't mean I'm wrong in my views though!

I honestly don't think it matters if they're proficient at anything much other than making friends and being a good member of the class in reception. They don't teach children formally in many countries until they're 6 or 7 and they seem to do better than us in terms of final outcomes. In fact many Europeans when you talk about reading at 5 look at you as though you're a nutcase.

My above makes my dd sound like a genius. No - shes probably just a bit above average in a classroom that doesn't bother to differentiate. She is very quick to learn but gosh there must be plenty of other kids in her very middle class school that turned up knowing their letters (she learnt from her sister when she was in reception) and able to sound out CAT and work out 2 add 2 in their head - we're not talking Einstien!!!
My point is that its not unreasonable to be disgruntled that she hasn't been moved forward even if it is 'only reception'.

Hi Smee. The thing is I think its downright mean to deprive children of reading till they are 7. They can't get anywhere with it for a year or 2 which means no chance to read age appropriate stories to yourself till you are about 9 at least. Whats that about? If I thought learning to read in reception was a nasty, damaging experience I might think differently but its not. For dd1 s very mixed class it was fun and empowering. I just don't get why people are so negative about their four and five year olds learning stuff. No one wants to force little ones into an unhappy grind of work but thats not what happens in a good reception class. Learning can be joyful, fun and empowering being taught things you already know isn't.

By beezmum Thu 18-Mar-10 18:08:27
Hi Smee. The thing is I think its downright mean to deprive children of reading till they are 7.

Who is depriving children of reading until they are 7?

I don't understand "goals of a play activity."

what is this 2,3 4 etc to a 9 ?

The 2,3,4 -9 are EYFS profile scores awarded to children at the end of reception year. A score of 9 indicates a child working considerably above EYFS levels (some being aspects of a NC level 2)
Points 1 2 & 3 are pre early learning goals and a child entering reception would normally score between 1-3 (although many nurseries score much higher because they don't use the assessment criteria correctly). According to statistics an "average"score for the end of reception would be 6.

eh beezbub?? Where did you get that from - nobody's stopping them reading if they're ready. I'm no expert, but in our reception there were acres of ways to learn, read, explore language but all through play. Lots and lots of books to pick up and read/ be read to you. They are learning masses, but not maybe in the way you or I were taught. I'm hugely positive about my child learning and would be worried if he wasn't, but for me growing vegetables, playing at shops, etc teaches them just as well.

Oh I'm not negative about my DD learning things - I actually can't wait for her to learn to read! I love reading and can't wait for her to be able to read so I can share that with her. I just feel there's no rush. As long as she's learning something and is having fun at school then that's enough for me for now.

I don't think I'd be happy if she was bored and fed up at school though but I'm not sure I'd link it with learning to read, I don't necessarily see why that would cure the boredom. DD's teacher certainly seems capable of keeping her (and her classmates) interested and enthusiastic without trying to teach them to read!

I can't help but wonder if the kids in countries where they don't go to school/do formal learning until age 6/7 spend a couple of years being permanently bored as a result??!

I was replying to Smee's comment - that on the continent they think we're mad having kids in school at 4 as they don't start till 6 or 7. That means, as I said before, no reading alone of age appropriate fun stuff till age 9ish at least.

I certainly don't think its hard to keep kids entertained and not teach them. Just that A) its boring if you do teach them and they know it all already and B) its rather a shame that they haven't been taught anything , for their own sakes.

You can't stop young children from learning they are wired up to do so from birth - even when they are being bored or entertained!

But beezbub you haven't answered my point about the fact that learning and teaching's taught differently now - ie it doesn't mean that they're not learning just because they're doing it through play. And how come on the continent on balance children leave school achieving higher levels of literacy than in the UK?

Agree with Mrz! And actually I don't think it's true to say that if a child doesn't formally learn to read until they're 6/7 they won't be able to read alone until they're 9. The older they are the quicker they pick it up I thought...certainly the kids I know who've been taught later in the Welsh system are beginning to 'free read' at 7-ish.

well I can't comment about other eu countries but I can tell you that the "starting later to read" is a bit of a red herring, certainly as far as Italy is concerned. Yes children start at 6 years old formal schooling, but nursery is very structured and they do learn a lot of literacy and numeracy, among other things. I know quite a few kids my DD's age who are not at "school" yet and still at nursery yet they have been taught to read and write already. Incidentally, they are also taught a foreign language (English), music and lots of other fantastic things by specialist teachers and all gasp for free.

Re different way of learning smee. At dds recent parents eve the teacher said (having very correctly assessed dds level) that in maths her next step is to start counting on. Of course I would be ecstatic if the teacher acted on this aim but experience tells me she wont.
That aside, dd can measure out oats to make flapjacks - or whatever else - until shes blue in the face and seeing as the activity is a) not aimed at her particular needs or b) not enough practice for her to build understanding, she is not going to learn to count on from it.
Having said that if she does do an activity and from that gets understanding I'm not against that at all - brilliant.
Re continental achievements. My main point is that learning is something good in itself, especially reading - not to be delayed when it can give so much to a developing child.
Having said that, say in Japan where thay don't start school till 7, by god do they do school when they get there. No maths through flapjacks for them! Its just not comparable as what we do with children varies so much after the age of 7 between countries.