Do teachers ever describes children as "bright" or "clever" these days?

[daisy243]

I'm pretty sure my dd (5) in reception is bright. I think her reading ability is probably around the top 1/4 of the class. Her writing (ie trying to spell words) is really good and her drawing is very good. However, after parents evening apart from knowing all is well I feel no clearer as to whether her abilities are below, middle or top end. I know it doesn't "matter" but it would just be nice to know.
It's as if it's wrong to want to know or you get labelled as pushy or competitive....which I'm not.
What are other people's experiences?

Something of an x-post with Hula - from our experience its certainly not worth worrying about comparisons in KS2. By the time they are in yr5/6, some children will be naturally competitive and be motivated by doing well compared to their peers.

Yes WHERE are you THK?? Sounds incredible.

At DH's Jesuit school in Belgium they didn't start formal work until six but from then on there was a class list regularly published with 'first' 'second' etc - I find that horrific. Needless to say one of the top performers had a nervous breakdown when he was 18. I think that teachers are likely to be unwilling to discuss 'level' and relative performance in Reception because at the differences in age really matter at that stage and also (as can be seen here) parents get very concerned about which reading book level their child is on - a concern which tends to diminish over time as they see progress. By Year 2 in my DC's school you are given a pretty accurate (since the teacher assesses them anyway!) forecast of how they will do in SATS. (I have different issues with testing at that age but at least I suppose you get an idea of how they are doing.)

In our reception the class is colour coded into 4 groups, red is higher ability and yellow is the lower. The kids seem to get jiggled about every now and again, though DD has always stayed in red.

Is this similar to other schools?

They've only just started introducing ability groupings in ds's class.
The kids are oblivious still from what I can tell.

Nothing is given away at dd's school
Does anyone have easy to understand information on what a reception child's targets are?
It's really interesting to see people's experiences and thoughts....cheers.

Daisy,
google EYFS profiles. There is tons of info - scale point 6 is about average for the end of reception. Someone better than me might come along with a link...

Hi, thanks that's useful....wonder why teacher didn't refer to it at parents eve. Hummmm

I am pleased to hear this. I don't believe intelligence is fixed.

People love to categorise children, label them, put them in boxes etc. Problem is labels can be very sticky to peel off. A 'slow' child that goes on to do very well is often credited with a surge of effort, an excuse is often found for a 'bright' child that seems to regress & not 'fulfill their potential' - getting in with the wrong crowd, home circumstances etc.

Truth be told perhaps things weren't so black and white in the first place?

I know a retired primary school teacher who tells me she could 'always tell' who the 'bright' ones were in reception. It's a subject that really interests me and I've commented on at length on here. In many schools ability groupings seem to be quite stagnant (not all I know). How many have a classroom situation where more than 1 or 2 children are moved every term or so? I am interested in what's unwittingly messaged to children in the classroom and how many essentially stay in similar ability groupings throughout primary school. I know of children who were/are actually much more capable than was first thought and have self esteem shot to pieces because no one picked up on their potential until they were much older. Similarly, I know of children who were seen and treated as being extremely bright (great handwriting early on, early readers etc) and put under pressure etc.

I read with interest on another thread, competitive parents? that a capable child was moved down to a low set - probably aged around 11 plus - because other parents were pushing for their child to be moved up. The parents of the capable child were too busy to be that involved with the politics at school etc to realise what was going on.

If groups are fluid, flexible etc then there should be no problem. I believe intelligence is learnable to a degree and minds expandable. If students are treated over an extended period of time as if they are intelligent they become so. (Unless there are learning impairments).

It's human nature to want to define/label etc, that's one reason why we like to know where our child is in relation to others in the class. We cling to 'ability' perhaps when we feel we have inadequate information about our child/the class etc.

Lovecheese - Im in Hong Kong
my dd is not in the local system she is at an independent school.
It is ultra competitive here for school places - an example of the extreme a couple weeks back a mother threw her 6 year old over a balcony of a high floor in a shopping mall for not gaining entry to her desired school. ( Girl survived but mother didnt).

The independent schools here are viewed by locals as an easy option - if you can afford it!

us.asiancorrespondent.com/hong-kong-blog/mom-throws-kid-commits-suicide-sham-shui-po-mall.htm l
Heres the link - maybe gives clearer picture of the situation here!

THK - that's horrendous!

In answer to the OP, we had a parents' evening last night where we were told that dd (reception, large state primary) is in the highest ability group and is "probably the most fluent reader in the class". Whilst I appreciate that this can change over time, I do think it is helpful for a parent to know how their child is doing. (Please allow me a little secret brag on MN as obviously I can't repeat that to anyone in real life - apart from maybe my mum!)

Well if you are going to use words like that I guess it would also make it OK to use words like thick and slow.

Your DD is doing really well. What does te ability of the other pupils matter?

'I know a teacher who tells every parent their child is in the top 10%'

LOL. I'd so do that too if I was a reception teacher

My daughter has a developmental delay, and at parents evening, they talk to me about what she's been doing and the progress she's made. They don't say, she's still below average etc. They are always very positive about any progress sh's made.
I always feel very positive after a parents evening, until I see another child in the same classes work.
Then I have to remind myself that development is not a race, it's a journey and that we are doing all we can to help her.

development is not a race, it's a journey

wise words!

IMO, at 5 you really can't tell how academic a child will be when they get older. That doesn't always become clear until a child is in senior school from what I have observed.

The main thing is that she is not bored at school but being able to read better than peers at 5 does not necessarily indicate a child who is cleverer.....although I think parents usually know if they have a child who is truly gifted.

I have a 6 year old and at the school she goes to the parents are very competitive about which book box their child is on and they nose to see what box other children are on etc....but really I don't even think about that - my main concern is that she's enjoying school which she is. If the environment is right to nurture a child's potential, the rest will follow imo.

It's great to here that children who are behind at 5 can catch up later on.
My daughter loves school and has a real love of learning, at home she constantly role plays being the teacher as she writes on her white board. She is interested in everything at the moment. She also has so much confidence and will chat away to anyone.
She comes across as being very bright but obviously formal acessment has proven otherwise, I really hope she'll get there in the end.

IMO, at 5 you really can't tell how academic a child will be when they get older. That doesn't always become clear until a child is in senior school from what I have observed.

The main thing is that she is not bored at school but being able to read better than peers at 5 does not necessarily indicate a child who is cleverer...

My fear is that a situation can arise where a 5 year old with a high IQ can under achieve going forward. If they are on the bottom table and don't progress to the middle/top they are likely to be in the 'lower stream' going forward. Unwittingly it's been messaged that they are not as intellectually capable, and over a period of years they absorb this message.

When it's suddenly 'discovered' they are 'gifted' or have a talent in a certain area at 14 the danger is they don't 'believe' and don't achieve as they should. It's rare a 'slow' child is re-categorised as a 'bright' one.

I am told this can't happen (SATs etc, good teaching) my fear is it can, it most certainly used to.

At the last parents evening, his teacher described him as "one of the brighter pupils in the class".
In reception DS1 muddled through, he wasn't gripped by school at all, only playtime but he has responded very well to this teacher.

I don't judge his progress on other pupils, at 6 it changes so much anyway, I am just happy that he is now enjoying learning.

Don't get too stressed about it, kids develop at hugely different rates and a non reader in reception could well turn out to be the class genius by year 5!

I have twin girls who are in year 4 now. In reception DT2 found it all a bit of a breeze, picked up reading, writing etc very well whilst DT1 was the complete opposite, struggled immensely with all of it. It wasn't until mid way through year 2 that reading suddenly clicked and I would say now in year 4 that DT1 is probably more academic than DT2.

I have been a bit too focused on what reading level ds is at but have now realised that this isn't going to be relevant at all when he's 7 or 8 and they are all off reading scheme books and all reading.

I feel all about it and it's quite liberating!

Cortina, I think you can tell if you should be worried by what the teacher says about your child. after all, if a child has a high IQ it's blindingly obvious they're bright. Even if they're not reading well at 5, they're probably articulate, which is a strong sign. And teachers should know each child in their class as individuals, so not lose or label anyone.

I was very articulate as a young child, described as 'quaint' in reports, I had a reading age way ahead of my peers. My handwriting was poor and I had a mental block when it came to Maths. I sat at the bottom table for my whole primary school career. My work was spoilt through poor presentation. My English was 'quite good' it would be 'very good' if only I could improve my punctuation and poor handwriting. I was in the lower band and written off at 11.

It was discovered I had a 'gift' at age 14, a few teachers campaigned to have me moved to the upper band, they thought someone else was doing my work for me for a while. Long story short when I started to win prizes in the sixth form but I didn't 'believe'. In my heart I thought I must be stupid and they'd got it wrong. It held me back for a long, long time.

From what I see this couldn't happen today? Or could it? In one of my children I see myself and I fear the same thing happening again.