Question for teachers especially infant about teaching of reading. I'm confused!

[ropeyoldbag]

Hi,
DS1 is in Reception. He is currently learning letter sounds. This despite the fact that he knew them all well before he joined the school in September. They do 2 letters a week apparently with a view to reaching 'sh' 'ch' and 'th' by the end of the year according to his teacher.

Now we have been in and asked about then on 3 separate occasions and last week she reluctantly sent home a list of high frequency words. It says high frequency at the top and it's words that range from 'a' to words like 'down'. She says if we want to be "soldiering ahead" (her words) then we can teach him those at home.

But..I don't want there to be some abstract branch of stuff that I'm doing at home IYSWIM. I bought the JP stuff when he was 3 and I've read the stuff about teaching them to read rather than teaching to recognise random words.
So my question is why isn't he doing all those vowel sounds? Why isn't he learning blends and 'magic e' and stuff. Am I expecting too much? Don't children who know letter sounds on entry (he also knew 'sh' and 'ch' and 'th' then) move on to this stuff? Can't believe I'm finding it so stressful.

Any advice greatly appreciated. And yes I know he should be playing and I believe in this wholeheartedly but in that 10 or 15min of literacy input, why is it teaching him how to read?

In reception I would aim to hear every child individually at least once a week preferably more often and children who weren't heard at home daily.

I don't like Floppy Phonics but then again I don't like Biff and Chip et al either. There are some really excellent phonics reading schemes and children make amazing progress then can move onto the later stages of non phonics books. My most able reception children last year went from complete non readers to gold book band in two terms.

I don't give any child a reading book until they can read. Once they have a book I change it as soon as they have read it and are able to talk about it in simple terms. Some children may have a new book a day, others may have a book a week. I don't expect children to read every book in every level and move them up and down the book bandings according to my assessment of how they are reading.

mrz It sounds like you have really got your head around teaching reading using phonics, I don't think thy have fully made the transition yet in my DDs school, they seem to be using all phonics in class, but expecting children to read ORT books which don't match the teaching.

onebadbaby I think that is the problem in many schools. They have schemes like ORT and can't afford to replace them and try to teach phonics without the support materials.

I was lucky that my head was willing to listen to me and back it with a considerable investment in new books.

how annoying for you!!!
YES should be differentiating much much more, nothing more off putting for your DS than sitting there listening to stuff that he already knows aaaarrrgghhhh! I hate teachers who insist on progressing through every stage and every book despite them being much more able. Go and see the head, ask about every child matters. grrr on your behalf

I don't think this is a case of differentiation the teacher is moving very slowly for any child even those who knew no sounds when they began school.

do you know what strickes me when i read this post and others is that many many teachers seem confused about teaching phonics. Just a thought

Dd is in reception. She can read all the 100 words, but is only working on sh, ch, and th in phonics. I think her teacher only does about 3 sounds a week.

Thank you all. DH has been using the computer for a couple of hours so I couldn't respond.

I think I will do both. I will go in again and I will start working my way through the JP stuff. I had deliberately held off from it in case it was in a different order from the scheme school use and this confused him.

I'm torn between wanting to charge in there and demand answers and wanting to be laid back and not to be seen as the pushy mummy.

Then go into school politely and ask what order they are introducing the letter/s-sound correspondences and if they are following a specific programme.

Also ask if they are learning how to blend (reading) and segment (spelling).

You might suggest, politely, that you would love to attend any parents' information evenings they provide for informing the parents on the school's approach to reading instruction.

What happened to working with parents in partnership?

You have every right to know how to support the school's work and your child's progress - especially in the teaching of reading and spelling which can amount to a life-chance issue if not done well.

thecloudhopper - you are right that many teachers are confused about phonics teaching, and yet others are simply overwhelmed and don't know how to fit in all the elements of the curriculum.

The government brought out 'Letters and Sounds' and schools were given options of using that programme - or an in-house or commercial programme.

I suggest, however, that a phonics publication with suggestions and no resources does not amount to a full programme at all - and yet schools are 'advised' to use the government's programme above other programmes with many practical teaching and learning resources.

Teachers and advisors seem reluctant or not able to evaluate what is the best programme to use - and, in any event, the synthetic phonics is only guidance and not statutory.

That is why I am asking the question as to whether it is time for synthetic phonics teaching to be the right of the pupils themselves! Should schools be legally required to provide rigorous and systematic synthetic phonics teaching?

I would really welcome the views of parents on here.

Doing fewer than 5 sounds a week seems a little slow to me - DD is in a mixed nursery reception class (they start nursery the term after they are 4 and do just mornings until the term when they are 5). She started in January and they have been doing a sound every day, with recap of other ones as well.

Not sure if they have been learning about blending specifically, but DD is suddenly able to blend and I haven't been doing anything with her except for listening to her read - she is suddenly "getting" reading as well.

The children are definitely at different levels and the ones ready for reading books have them; the ones who aren't yet haven't. It probably helps that there are currently 12 children with one teacher - after Easter there will be another influx, although not as many as the current intake.

I have been unable to find any schools in my local area that are following a synthetic phonics teaching programme in the manner that I think Debbie would want or expect to see.

My concern is that they all 'say' they are following Letters and Sounds. My DS's school was at the same time sending home books that could only be 'read' by looking at the pictures or parroting the predictable and repetitive wording of the previous pages. They didn't believe in decodable books. They couldn't/wouldn't tell me which sound/letter correspondences he was working on... he should be telling me that apparently! Lists of high-frequency words to learn were a mish-mash of the perfectly easy to decode with even basic knowledge, and genuine tricky words like "one". No explanation, no apparent structure or logic to any of it. They were firmly committed to the belief that as children are all different, they need a mixture of methods. This was all in YR1 btw. Reception used JollyPhonics but again with no communication to parents and I suspect little or no progression beyond very simple CVC cat, sat, mat type words.

Schools like this will later conclude that they tried Letters and Sounds, and synthetic phonics just doesn't work. I feel that this is the conclusion they want. They will not be looking for better ways of teaching SP, or investing in the great resources available, because they see nothing wrong in their old ways. I think it is even possible that these half-hearted attempts make things worse for children. Teacher says look at the picture and have a guess, Mummy says look at the word and sound it out (which they usually can't because the books are not structured decodable readers). Children end up stuck in the middle and totally turned off.

Hi,
I went in again this morning to see the teacher.
And as Throm just said, I was told that children need a range of methods and that he would get there in his own time.

I was then given this whole speal (sp?)about how the EYFS demands lots of play etc. I felt like tearing my hair own and screaming, 'I don't want him to do more academic work, just better quality.' I just want what he does do to be tailored to his needs and ability.

Oh goodness me your teacher sounds a nightmare.

I bet she's posting somewhere on the TES forum saying she's had this really pushy mum in. Imho all you want is to know that your child is learning through play and not just playing.

Time for a chat with the head asking him or her to clarify the school's policy on the EYFS?

What have other parents with kids in the class said?

If parents are concerned about the 'quality' of the phonics teaching, I do hope people will get behind me, then, on pushing for more accountability.

I have just written a paper to put out in the public domain - which could be useful for people who want to push for a higher standard of basic skills literacy teaching.

My theory is that if at least some of us don't push for the highest possible standards, the overall standards will continue to badly let down many or your (our) children and grandchildren.

I have always maintained that attending a national 'state' school should not be a lottery according to the chance of who works there!

If parents choose to send their children to private schools of various descriptions- then that is their choice. But for most people, the local state school is where we want our children to attend but where we should get no lesser standards than the very best private schools.

The more people who show that they support my suggestions, the more influence I may be able to succeed in my endeavours for great synthetic phonics teaching for reading and spelling (and throw in great handwriting) - which will enable the greatest levels of creativity possible from all the children.

I'll post a link to my paper for people who are interested when I've got it on the internet somewhere.

Debbie, I hope you don't mind me saying this but this, imho, is getting a bit too focused on your campaign and not on the OP's problem.

I know it started off as about her problem but now you sould like you just want publicity for your campaign and that sort of thing is usually frowned upon on here.

sound not sould

Yes, but the OP asked "am I expecting too much?". And I can definitely relate to her last remark about wanting to tear out her own hair in frustration at the teacher's last response! I think these issues are really important and am interested in where we go from here. Perhaps this deserves a thread of its own though.

thegrammerpolicesic - What a pity you feel like this. It is not my intent to make this thread part of my 'campaign'. I have merely been trying to ascertain how 'real' parents feel about these issues to properly inform me (and others).

You have to bear in mind that I hear from many people from many places who have huge worries about their children's education - often when the child is in key stage two and really struggling. The original OP may not have approached me personally - but clearly she is very concerned about the quality of her son's education. She is not alone.

I am more than happy to refrain from making any further inquiries on this thread, but I am not really happy that your comment was couched in such terms to suggest that I am exploiting this thread somehow for my own ends. I dedicate all my time and energy to supporting other people's ends as I know only too well the great variations in quality of provision in different settings! My own children have long since left the 'basic literacy skills' stage!

Hmm....I've re-read my earlier posting and I can see what you mean about the tone of it.

As I said, it was not my intent to upset the apple cart and I shall not provide the link I described or pursue this issue here. My apologies if anyone thinks I posted 'out of turn'.

I genuinely do care, however, that every child gets the best start possible - and appropriate to their needs. I am sure that most people realise that my heart lies in working towards this equality.

You can get a free copy of Letters and Sounds if you ring.

Debbie, it would be interesting if you raised your question about the rigorous teaching of synthetic phonics on another thread.

(However, I think a campaign to rally the support of professionals for synthetic phonics would probably be more useful than harnessing punters' support.)

Thank you for that suggestion. It is a good one.

I don't quite feel at home on 'mumsnet' yet having only ventured on it recently. I'd really be better off remaining a bit more low key and joining in discussions on a practical level.

I feel so sorry for the teaching profession. The teaching climate for so many teachers is pretty awful and they are sick of being pushed from pillar to post and being scrutinised to death and asked to 'evidence' on paper every last bit of their practice.

I suspect that nowhere is this so bad as in the early years over the last few years - and then it got worse last year when they made the Early Years Foundation Stage statutory.

I broach the idea of making SP statutory because of the intransigence of many people - including probably many of the teacher-training establishments - and because that clock is ticking for your children.

I just wondered whether being 'mumsnet' that I might do some finding out as to whether parents are aware of these things or whether it matters to parents or not.

Debbie - I do agree - shall we start a new thread on this as I would actually like to join the discussion?

Then again, strictly speaking I believe this sort of thing should go in media discussions (even though you are not a member of the media) i.e. where it relates to a campaign.

But as I say I would love to join in a discussion. I know one EYFS teacher (ooh sorry 'practitioner'!!!) who has been teaching very effectively imho for three or maybe four decades and is incredibly fed up with being told she cannot now teach, she has to do things particular ways etc.

She knows what works for her and children as she's been doing it well for years. I feel so sorry for her and you can see it is eating away at her love of the job.