Y1 DS2, wondering about maths.

[CardyMow]

I've discovered today that DS2 (6.2yo, Y1) can count in twos and add money. He counted out the money in his money box, and proudly announced that he has £2.94! (As he has muscle problems and is unable to produce written work, it is very hard to know what level he is working on IYSWIM, teacher just says he's in the lowest group as they can't move him up without written work, and she hasn't produced any teacher assessments for me to look at). What level would you say that is in NC levels? He can add up to 100, and take away from 20. He understands 1/2 and 1/4 of things. He understands that 2 x 1/2 = 1 whole, and 2 x 1/4 = 1/2. He is very good at pattern recognition, i.e. if you have a pattern that goes circle, square, triangle, circle, square,....,he can tell you what is next in the sequence. He can't tell the time yet, but is fascinated by the passage of time, so we are working on telling the time over half term. He can count in tens up to 100, and in 5's up to 50. TBH I'd just like a rough guess at which NC level he is working on, as the school seem unable to tell me.

DS (5) is in Y1 and considered very good at maths by his teacher.

He can count in twos and add money. I don't think he understands fractions. He can tell the time.

Ds1 is 6.1 and in Y1. He can do what you said but I don't think he knows fractions. He can sometimes tell the hour and half-past.

At school, they are giving him worksheets (that he can't fill in, SEN in the school is poo, but no other choice, long story) that ask him to add 2+1. He comes home and complains that it's boooooring, so I wanted to be able to go to the school, and say that he is working on NC level X and needs to have more TA time to be able to (verbally) do work that is more appropriate.

Is he on the SEN register? If he is physically unable to produce written work and the teacher feels it is essential in order to assess him or for him to participate at an appropriate level in lessons, there should be a TA/adult provided to scribe for him. In fact, if the problem is severe but he is still able to type, he may be entitled to a personal laptop. I would be kicking up a bit of a stink, if I were you. It sounds like they are failing him massively. (And of course he's bored ... the bottom group are probably struggling to count to 20!)

I suppose if you want some evidence yourself, you could get some of those homework books you can buy in places like Smiths. If you scribe for him and fill in only what he is able to tell you without any help, you could at least take that in and show what he can do when the writing obstacle is taken out of his hands.

I can't speak for KS1 as I'm a junior teacher and I've never taught in KS1, but in KS2 SATs they can have maths tests read to them, and if they have a problem like your son's, they can also have a scribe. If it's good enough for y6, it's good enough for children who are only just learning ot write! Reception teachers do most of their assessing through observation - why is your sons's teacher so dependent on written evidence only a term and a half later?! Maths ability is not about writing it down!

And if you're unhappy with the teacher's response, go to the SENCo and Head.

This link to the standards site might help too:

nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/search/primary/results/nav%3A45687%20facets%3A27904

I would be kicking up a huge fuss about this if I were you - it sounds outrageous that he's in the lowest group. And it's completly wrong to say they can't move him up without written work. My ds broke his right arm really badly in year 2 and one of the TAs scribed for him whenever he needed it - there should certainly be something formal in place for your ds. Can he use a keyboard?

That's simply not true that he cant be assessed because he cant produce written work. Is it any wonder that so many kids with special needs get so disillusioned wtih mainstream schools .

They should assess him verbally - what rubbish that being unable to write the answer must mean you don't know it.

Just tell the teacher what you have told us - you don't need to know which stage or level it is. They have lists which show that stuff.

For god sake why does he need to write it down !!! Am a TA but if I was the teacher then I would look at what he could do orally and this would give a good indication of what level he is at.

I would also try some other ways of getting him to record if he could not write down for example I would get magnetic numbers and simbols and when doing adding or taking away etc then I would get him to use those which I would then picture.

If a work sheet is that important to them couldn't they adapt it so that he could do it without writing. for example having the answers cut out and all in a muddle then getting him to glue them in the right place??

I would also go to the SENCO and head with your concerns and then later on if things did not improve I would possibly go and take your problem to the school iclution team.

I agree with seeker about the computer.
sorry about spellings.

ps - good luck

Only read the post about the laptop-he IS on the SEN register, he's on SA+, both the class teacher and the SenCo agree he NEEDS a laptop, but they only have one for the school for SEN, and a child in Y5 has it, so DS2 won't get it till Y3. If I could find another school that had space for him that I could reach by public transport, then the boys would be moved, but there genuinely isn't a school that has spaces for both. The nearest is 30 miles away. Spoken to inclusion team, it's down to the SenCo, and the devolved SEN budget for this and next financial year at the school was spent on building two extra classrooms as the school were running one classroom down last yr, and are taking another 3-form entry in Sept this yr, so there just isn't the budget. And as he doesn't have behaviour problems, not likely to get a statement.

Oh and as for getting the TA to scribe (which is officially what's meant to be happening)...HA!...One TA, my DS2 (muscle probs and asd) 2 other asd boys in the class, one ESL child, and a profoundly deaf child all in one class. The concentration of SN dc's is the same in all 3 classes in his year. I go in to help out as much as I can, not just with DS2, but the school had to use their budget on building instead of TA's (they had 2 TA's per class, plus a nursery nurse, plus the teacher in reception last yr). LEA expanding school beyond capacity despite having built another school...And I've tried the books thing, he's working on the 7-8 Letts books perfectly fine at home. Doesn't matter, according to the school. If he moves up a group, the TA has to stay with the lowest group so he wont get any help....

Do they have normal computers in the classroom? Because if they do a subscription to whatever the UK equivalent of Mathletics is (or even Mathletics) would seem more sensible than not being able to work at his own level.

only one, they are meant to use it in rotation for maths lessons, class teacher is trying to let DS2 on there more often, but other parents have complained that so-and-so didn't get their turn today and was very upset...... The SenCo (knowing my financial situation is piss poor due to being disabled myself and unable to work) suggested I buy a laptop and send it into school for him......I can get A laptop through this free school meals thingy, but DS2 doesn't qualify as he's not in Y3-9. Bit poo really. And the one I get is going to have to be (mostly) for DD, as the one I'm using doesn't even have office on it. Was a gift from someone who was going to throw it away. DD is in Y7 and has lots of homework she's meant to do online (maths) and research etc. And she's SN as well. And he still needs the TA support that he'll only get in the lowest group to help him concentrate (he gets easily distracted as he has sensory issues to do with his asd). All the other children that need TA support are in the lowest group. So either DS2 moves up a group and loses any TA support or he stays where he is doing maths he could do over a year ago. Am at a bit of a loss really.

Push for the laptop, there are a lot of interactive maths programmes the school could load onto it to give them some idea of how he's doing. Sounds like a strong 2a level on the little bit of info you gave, so above average.
Presumably his written work lags behind his ability for the same reason?
If he could show what he can do, his attention would be more focused as well.
Go through the SENCO and talk about reasonable adjustment to access the curriculum at an appropriate level.

I have no idea about levels as I am a 44 year old dad of an 8 month old boy (he is obviously up to his 12x table, but that is another story ;)). I do, however, have some feeling for maths, having studied physics at Cambridge.

On a common sense basis, your son sounds very bright, especially as he has achieved what he has without the aid of paper and pencil. He also sounds intuitive and interested, the most important things in real maths (as opposed to sums). Personally, I would not be over enthusiastic about a laptop, unless it can be just rigged up for him as a pad/blotter. I would encourage him at home if you or your other half have a mathematical bent and look for things outside school which are suitable.

Fine
Disregard the advice of the femaleprimary specialists and/or those with expertise and experience with sn. Go with the male Cambridge physics graduate
Why do you think we are advising use of a laptop larry?

Goblinchild,

The OP can go with whomever she chooses. And each person can only give advice from their own perspective. That is why it is a discussion forum. "Male" physics graduate, I think that speaks to your perspective on things. Were I female, would my view be more relevant. She is actually speaking about her DS, not her DD. Maybe, as a male, I can empathise better with a boy?!

And, as for those with expertise/experience, the UK has one of the worst performances in the maths/scientists in the entire world. Go figure!

Laptops these days have many specialist learning programmes, which I think are narrow and discourage imagination. Hence my comments.

Her son has muscle problems, the teacher is not able to cope with assessing him without written evidence (she's wrong, but that's another fight)
With a laptop, he can use a mouse or a keyboard which is often much easier for someone with low muscle tone. There is a lot of investigative software available in schools linked to maths, not just closed questions.
I have two children in my class who use laptops, without them they would be unable to access the full curriculum or demonstrate their true ability other than orally. Both male.
And no, I have no problems with you being a bloke, just that you seemed to be flaunting your y chromosome as a credential.

He really didn't (flaunt his y chromosome)Goblinchild - and it's great to have a variety of views, no?

Agreed Snowstorm, I just wanted to know why he objected to the laptop idea and what he thought they were used for in a Y1 classroom.
Apologies if I sounded grumpy larry, but I get a bit fed up with people being dismissive of things unless they have well-grounded reasons for it.
I'm more annoyed with the teacher, the boy needs a scribe, a peer-partner, to be videoed as evidence, or to have his verbal reasoning on tape if she needs evidence. Many children operate outside normal parameters, and she needs to get creative about it. Instead of sticking him in the bottom group

Goblinchild,

I have no special knowledge of education (as I admitted in my first post). However, it just seems to me that there is more and more technology used in education and yet, especially in maths and hard sciences, we seem to be going backwards. Two of the best nations in the world for maths and science are India and China. They seem to use lots of old fashioned teaching coupled with lots of streaming.

Maybe there is technology that I am not aware of to help those with muscular problems. On the other hand, it is amazing the amount of concepts that can be dealt with orally and mentally (witness Stephen Hawkins).

I do not have the solution for the OP's son but am just trying to encourage her that her son clearly does have ability and that all the answers are not necessarily to be found within the school environment.

PS Flaunting a Y chromosome would be perilous indeed on MN, one more feels the need to apologise for it!

he can cope with a laptop, albeit slowly, using a laptop he can produce some written work to evidence what level he is working at, thus getting teacher to give him more appropriate work. When I met with the SenCo to complain about the lack of laptop (that she herself admits he needs to access the curriculum) she asked if I could provide him with one (I can't) and then told me she would see if she could get him one soon. Not quantifying soon. And that was the first day back after Christmas. I assume 'soon' to the SenCo is not the same as my idea of 'soon' as a parent that is seeing her child being unable to access the curriculum at school.

Plus, his father is MLD and asd himself, and is therefore unable to do very much wrt schoolwork. I don't live with his father larrygrylls, and as well as DS2, I also have a DS1 that needs me, and a DD with MLD and asd and other health problems. Where do you suppose I fit in the time to do any more at home than I'm doing?

This primary school consistantly failed my DD for the 5 years that she attended there, and is now proceeding to fail my DS2. Yet there is no option for me to move my ds's due to being in a very very oversubscribed area, and the school they are at is the only 'LEA run' school in the area, so is the one given the 'bulge' classes etc. Even DD's Secondary school has (off the record) told me that they have more SEN dc's from this school that have made no progress in their whole time at primary than from any other local school. DD left this primary on p-scales at the end of Y6. She joined the school due to a house move in Y2, on p-scales. NO PROGRESS and no support for a statement.

WTF am I meant to do when I can see the school repeating the same old same old mistakes with DS2 that they made with DD? I can't HE due to my epilepsy, SS have said they would open a CP case if I HE. Because due to lack of transport and funds I would be unable to access social groups for him. Rock and hard place spring to mind.