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Original poster

Girls can't do maths !

192 replies

Keepo · 05/02/2010 15:55

My dd (10) loves maths. However, she is now the only girl in top set for maths in her class. All of her friends tell her that she cannot be good at maths because she is a girl . The other boys tell her the same.

This week they had a maths enrichment lesson and only the boys in her set got to go. I went to talk to her teacher about this and she told me she assumed that dd would not want to go. I asked why and she said "well I thought english might be more her thing she is a girl". . Am I alone in finding this odd. This attitude is starting to grind dd down.

Are all schools like this about girls and maths ? To be fair it does seem to have only come up this year.

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edam · 08/02/2010 10:44

I used to be ace at map reading (although bizarrely am getting worse at it) and always scored well on the rotating objects bit of IQ tests. Dh, on the other hand, could easily get lost within a mile of his own house. In fact, when we lived in West London and moved to a new house a mere two miles away in South West, he managed to end up ten miles away in South East London... all he had to ruddy do was follow the river and go across one bridge!

Had a teacher in one class at primary school who put me down a set in Maths because 'you can't be in the top set for both English and Maths' (suspect that was code for 'girls can't be in the top set for both). My mother soon put him right - suspect he never made that mistake again.

I'm still OK at the sort of maths that I use regularly but have forgotten all the stuff that doesn't crop up at work or in everyday life. Ds goes through phases of testing my mental arithmetic on the way to school - a series of questions such as'Mummy, what's 219 take away 52' or even worse '386 times 42', which is really bloody hard first thing in the morning when all my brain can cope with is getting out of the door.

Builde · 08/02/2010 11:14

I'm not very happy - either - that boys aren't expected to read and write as well as girls.

That seems to be lowering expectations purely because of gender.

edam · 08/02/2010 11:17

yeah, good job no-one told Charles Dickens that boys can't write. Or Martin Amis. Or Shakespeare. Or... but you get the drift.

EffiePerine · 08/02/2010 11:25

Appalling. I'm another one who was failed by maths teachers at school (first year at seconadary school in the top 3, three years later I was struggling due to zero encouragement). But then I had great science teachers and did very well in those subjects (up to A Level, went on to study English). I hope that same teacher isn't telling her class that science is for boys too

EffiePerine · 08/02/2010 11:28

yes to reading and writing

my relatives only seem to buy books about trains and diggers for my boys with plenty of moving bits rather than text - in fact they love books with interesting text and good illustrations (well DS2 is only a year so yet to express much of a preference!).

stealthsquiggle · 08/02/2010 11:30

Keepo - did you get anywhere with the head/ teacher? It sounds as though this particular teacher needs some serious attitude re-adjustment. Maths is fun and so is English and why the hell should boys and girls be pushed into preferring one to the other? (and girls are more than capable of being trouble!) AFAIK the girls (who are in the minority in the year group) are disproportionally represented in top groups for both Maths and English in DS's year.

Strix · 08/02/2010 11:31

I agree, Buile. DS, in reception now, hass really bad pencil control, and the first thing I heard was "Well, he's a boy". I was not too fussed at the biginning of the year. But, last week at the consultation I said he was really behind and he needs some help. I didn't quite realise how behind he was until I looked at the kids at the table at church all making detaile pictures, and my boy still scribbles like a toddler. It was sort of a wake up call for me. So, I asked for him to be assessed by someone in school, which the teacher happily agreed to so I'm happy with that. But still mildly annoyed at the initial reaction of oh he's a boy.

nickelbabe · 08/02/2010 11:36

i had another thought about this thread.

my degree is Materials Science, which needs maths, being a physics subject. my maths A-level was my best subject

After I graduated, I did an HND in Fashion Technology (it was totally accidental!!) and i only found making/designing patterns easy-peasy because it's ALL MATHS (hated fashion...)

so, that does fit in with girls being good at sewing: the really good at sewing can do their own patterns because they're good at maths!

edam · 08/02/2010 11:43

don't forget cooking. Lots of maths. Remember that comedian who played Mrs Miggins in Blackadder correctly identifying the equation for exploding custard on QI once, drawing on her Domestic Science O-level!

nickelbabe · 08/02/2010 11:58

too true, edam

and music is very mathematical too (and the whole basis of music is also physics)

Loopymumsy · 08/02/2010 12:43

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ronshar · 08/02/2010 12:46

DD1 is in the top 5 in her year for maths and so far has always been encouraged.
However she is beinning to say to me that she is getting lots of comments from other children because she is one of the clever ones. Apparently she is dorky and a geek.
I am unsure what to say to her that will encourage her but without making her stick out even further.
I am very of her abilities. I was let down badly by my middle school teacher who told us we didnt need to learn about fractions as they werent very important. Needless to say my Maths is shit.

Original poster
Keepo · 08/02/2010 12:59

Wow ! so many messages I will have to sit and read them all carefully thank you.

I have spoken to the head. He was clearly not surprised and hinted that they had had this problem before with this teacher. He said he would talk to her about it. He apologised and said that this was no reflection of the views of the school. I knew that anyway the other teachers are not like that at all.

I feel a lot better about it. He is going to ring me some time soon once he has spoken to the teacher as well.

DD now has an I'll show you you are wrong attitude and has stormed into school with renewed determintation thanks to all your comments.

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Original poster
Keepo · 08/02/2010 13:00

oh italics din't work oh well

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ronshar · 08/02/2010 13:09

If the head knows this teacher is bad then why is she still teaching?
In any other job if you cant do it then you get the sack.
Why are teachers so protected?
They have arguably one of the most important jobs but some are allowed to ruin childrens lives and chances.

tootootired · 08/02/2010 13:12

Ronshar, I feel for your DD, I had a lot of that at school. Only suggestion I can make is try to make time for some decent non academic socialising with the better of her friends, then they will still see her as "one of us" despite her cleverness, and having a circle of friends will give her a bit of resilience against the ignorant teasers.

tootootired · 08/02/2010 13:13

Keepo, thanks for the update too. Maybe the teacher in question will have a change of heart due to your inspiring DD, that would be great all round.

Kaloki · 08/02/2010 13:15

ronshar I was one of the geeky ones at school, by the time I got to further education the attitudes had changed. It will get better.

Loopymumsy · 08/02/2010 13:15

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bamfusina · 08/02/2010 13:31

Outrageous reply and I am a Y6 teacher - you should meet with Head and discuss. You believe that your dd should have the opportunities to succeed in any subject - her school should too. They have reinforced all of the negative assumptions coming from her peers. Excusable from children not teachers.

BetsyBoop · 08/02/2010 13:46

That's outrageous!

I was top of my year at maths and the only girl to do maths A level in my year (and therefore the only girl to do further maths A level) I got nothing but encouragement to pursue maths from the teachers.

Interestingly though when I went to university to do a maths degree it was about 60/40 men/women.

Of course girls can do maths too....

Original poster
Keepo · 08/02/2010 14:03

OK - head rang and said he has talked to teacher who sends apologies. He said something about training for teacher and apologised again. He also said he double checked and dd has been in top two in her year for maths from QCA tests (not sure what those are) for quite some time so definitely should have been invited to the maths thing. He also said that we should go in if we have further issues. I will be keeping my eyes and ears open.

Good result all round I hope things on a day to day basis will improve.

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SpeedyGonzalez · 08/02/2010 14:05

Well done Keepo for reporting this, but...did you mention it to the teacher first? Or did you go straight to the head?

Original poster
Keepo · 08/02/2010 14:11

After the initial talk with the teacher (see original post)I didn't go back - that was on friday. I went to the head this morning.

I do think this was the right thing to do in the light of what other parents in dds class have said about her steriotyping both boys and girls. She needed to be spoken to. This has obviously happened before. Our head is usually very supportive of his staff and their opinions, just as he should be.

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TheInvisibleHand · 08/02/2010 14:24

Keepo - glad to see that you got some support from the school on this - indeed would have been utterly flabbergasted if you had not.

Just in case its of any encouragement to your DD, I thought I'd chip in as well.

I was always pretty good at maths and have a first class maths degree (mostly thanks to my dad, who encouraged me all the way). But I remember when I was choosing degree subjects and was asking my maths teacher whether I was good enough to try for an oxbridge maths place. Her comment "well, they're the best judge of that". (In context, that was almost equivalent to saying don't bother, I'm a bit of an all rounder and could have gone for artsy subjects as well, where the school had a very good track record). In the end I had a few private lessons with my brother's maths teacher from his boys school - surprise surprise, he confirmed I'd be fine and I got my Oxbridge place. But I could so easily have given up on the idea after a comment like that.