Kindergarten strongly recommended ds go to special school next year not normal primary, how do I decide for the best?

[ErnestTheBavarian]

We are in Germany. ds is at Kindergarten. At the end of Kindergarten time his teachers recommend if a child is ready for school or not. I had meeting today, and totally shocked they recommend he go to a special school.

I have long suspected he has ADHD, and he had his 1st appointment last week, so 1st step in DX process.

He is clever. She said he is clever, lovely great imagination but cannot cope well in large group situations, looses his temper v easily(true), gets frustrated v. easily (true), and in a normal primary class room he will not cope esp in German system, so has strongly recommended a special school which would give much smaller groups each with 2 teachers. He needs a lot of individual support and attention to cope with the social side of the classroom.

Attending the special school would mean leaving the house at 6.40 to get 7 am school bus, long bus journey, going to school a long way away from home & therefore no local friends, I'd also be concerned that his education wouldn't progress as well as it could (he is clever and a fast learner and is way ahead of his peers in this respect) and yes, I'd be concerned about stigma.

Has anyone been in a similar position and how did you decide? (apparently Kindergarten can recommend special school, but we don't have to accept this, and can chose to send him to the normal primary if we wish). Obviously, we wish to do the best for our ds, how do we decide?

Maybe visit the local primary, and visit the special school, and see where you honestly can imaging him being happiest and thriving.

The teachers in your Kindergarten have the advantage of seeing how he copes in larger groups/ school structured environment, so their advice is very important here too

Good luck

how much support would he have access to in mainstream primary?

ds1 has TS and Asperger's and at 6 was barely able to stay in a normal classroom, however special school would have been completely wrong for him as he's exceptionally bright and also needed to be around neuro-typical kids to get a better idea of 'normal' behaviour

But he had a 1-1 learning support assistant who'd help him modify his behaviour or work outside the classroom if needed

In your case, I think it would completely depend on whether or not he'd be left to 'sink or swim' in mainstream.

What's the support like for children in mainstream. I'm in the uk and my ds1 has a dx of as, he is in mainstream primary and has an allocation of one-to-one every morning and most of the ta's time in the afternoon too tbh. He gets this support along withh a computer because of his dx, if he had a statement of sen he would get more.

I can imagine ds1 struggling in mainsteam secondary with the social and organizational side so we are looking into nonselective private at the moment.

Talking to local mums of sn dc at support groups/courses gave me the best insight into schools from a sn child perspective.

Seem like we're bwn a rock and a hard place then, as I asked about classroom support and was told there is none, it doesn't exist, so if he goes to normal primary he'll be left to get on with it in a classroom with only 1 teacher and no assistant, and according to KG he would sink like a stone.

Otoh, as mimsum says " however special school would have been completely wrong for him as he's exceptionally bright and also needed to be around neuro-typical kids to get a better idea of 'normal' behaviour" this is exactly our fear - he isn't wild or naughty, just finds social situations very difficult to deal with alone, and needs an adult to help him and support him a lot dealing with this, but he is clever and KG also agreed, educationally he needs might well not be met in the special school either.

Still reeling with shock tbh.
And as I said , stuck between a rock and a hard place or so it seems right now.

ErnestTheBavarian, we are in the UK, and we have just had to make a similar choice to you.

What it boiled down to was did I want DD to be in a 'normal' school, but in reality so different in her needs that she would end up out of the class more than in, or did I want her to be somewhere that had such small classes that she can have a bat at learning independence & socially mature?

We have chosen special school.

I am so torn. Apart from not being strectched, having to get up at 6, leave the house around 6.30 to catch a bus at 7, and be miles from home, and not in the same school as his brother, which he was looking forward to. It all is such a schock. Never in a million years was I expecting this.

How did you decide on the special school?

Well, a combination of factors:

Against: Desperately wanting her to go to the school her friends go to. Wanting to be a normal Mum. Wanting her to be academically fulfilled. Wanting her SNs to dissolve, I think.

For: Total communication environment (so many melt downs are due to a lack of understanding)
Skilled & trained staff to get the best out of DD emotionally and behaviourally. Knowing that the consistency for DD wouldn't go if a LSA was off sick.
The fact that DD needs 1:1 and our LA almost never gives complete 1:1.
Knowing that SS places are hard to get, and ms places are all around us.
Knowing that at SS DD will be celebrated, not contained.

You really need to go and see the special school and discuss your sons needs with them . My Oldest is ay a special school. Moved at 11. We chose it because we felt he would be socially isolated if he remained in mainstream . His school is for children with normal inteligence but his disability. School is about more than academic. If the school only caters for children with learning disabilities . He probibly wont be happy as he wont have friends on his level. Most of our friends are like us in some way!. I am not sure how the system in Germany works. In England children with marked special needs have a statement which itemises what they need over and above the norm. A school that can meet those needs is named + what they need to meet the needs eg 1-1 classroom help and funding follows the child (In theory)

My German friend is very...err...scathing...about the special school system in Germany. We got into a discussion about it just last week, as I'm trying to get my DD moved from mainstream to SN school here in England. She was amazed at the difference in the systems, and as far as she's concerned (her younger sister went to a german special school), if your child has ANY chance of independant living/ exams etc, and you live in Germany, then put your child in MS and pay for additional help at home for 'catch-up' work, due to the lack of help in German MS classes. If he is bright, and it's due to behaviour, her advice would be MS.

But surely it can't be good for any child to be in an environment where they cannot cope with the social demands placed on them, with no support to do so? And if the argument is that he can still benefit academically, why would you get extra catch-up tuition? Net result - not coping socially, catching up at home, so why is he at school, surely?

What I mean is that by that token you could put him in special school & pay for external home lessons for academic gain, equally.

TBH I have to say it would depend on the particular schools.

If he were entering a relatively small class with good structure and routine he may cope. If it is a vibrant noisy enviromentthen maybe not

Abd special school covers a wide remit. I am a bit about the references to wild or naughty. My DS is not wild or naughty and most of the children behave impecably. Given thatthe school mostly has children with ASD or aspergers most ofthem are very keen on the rules and academically are brilliant in manys subjects.
His school is a fantastic learning enviroments where he and his peers get the support for their needs and a taiolored education. Having said that another school I visited was shit.

Stop trying to make a decision based on principal. The actual schools and how they would help him is what really matters

pag, I wasn't talking about children in special schools, I was talking about my ds, and he isn't wild, well maybe sometimes, and he isn't naughty (ever!).

Thanks for your tips. I hated going into the KG this morning and the teacher giving me a theatrical sympathetic look and stroking my arm in a comforting manner, grrr. If I feel his need will be best met at a special school, then of course, that's where he should go.

I will visit the 2 alternative options, thanks for spelling that out to me, that of course is important. Should I also try to speak with the head of the primary? (He isn't I wouldn't guess, too accommodating).

I guess what I don't know, is how to find out more about what a special school actually means here in Germany as loudlass says

I think the systems in Germany and UK must be very different, so you need local advice.

Your son is at the first stage in getting a diagnosis, so at the moment he has no diagnosis. He is about 5 or 6? I know school starts much later in Europe.

In the UK, special school would not be considered in this situation. You would probably find getting a statement of special needs quite a challenge! Most children are supported in mainstream schools, and many special schools have been closed. I know parents who have had to wade through masses of red tape to get their children into special schools when they have not thrived in mainstream.

"In the UK, special school would not be considered in this situation"

I'm not sure that is quite the case, Madsometimes. My DD is similar in some respects to the OP's DS. She can't cope with the big groups, becomes hyperactive and disruptive, has hit out occasionally at staff when in a meltdown, etc. She does have other stuff going on (speech and language delay, mobility delays, etc.) but is bright, apparently. She will start Special school in September in the UK.

I think if the OP's son is only just seeing doctors for assessment, it is too early to tell what his situation is, as the reason for his behaviour will determine the action taken.

I taught in a German school as a student for just three weeks. One boy in the class had ADHD or similar and had never got on well until he moved classes. The previous teacher and he did not see eye to eye but the new teacher could cope with him much better. The problem was that the classes had the same teacher for all four years. Had he had the second teacher all the way through he would have done better from the start.
There was no differentaition of tasks at all. It's an alien concept to them in mainstream so a child could and do easily get left behind. However, if he is bright and has the right teacher it could well suit him. Perhaps he could meet the prospective teachers and see who he clicks with? You'd need a reasonable head teacher of course but it does seem doable.
These children who are often a bit more 'wild' further down the school relax a bit as they get older. Their class mates often learn how to deal with them and vice versa and a teacher who knew him well could work wonders with him.
Going a long way to school is so tiring (I did it for secondary school) and having no local friends is miserable. Perhaps you could start off at the mainstream school and see how it goes.

Ernest, do everything you can NOT to send him to a special school.

As Loudlass said, in Germany if you want your child to have a chance in life later, then put him in MS and pay for additional help at home. Give him that chance atleast. If he realyl has problems then you can sort it out later, he could re-take a year (2nd or 4th). It's not the same as special school in UK here in Germany.

Oh dear. I only have two pieces of advice:

1. as many others have said, go and look at the schools asap and talk to the staff.

1. I grew up in Germany and I would say that there is a strong stigma attached to atending a "Sonderschule" - that is what you mean, right? To me "Sonderschule" is associated with children with significant, major learning difficulties and well below average intelligence - which, by the sounds of it, your son most definitely does not belong in that category. Aside from his long-term prospects, I would be concerned that his behavioural issues could get worse if he is bored and not stretched. So I think that you need to ask the head of the special school how they teach bright kids and how many of them there are likely to be in your son's year. I would be concerned that, once in the special school, he will never make it out of there, unless there is really strong provision for bright children.

In the meantime, can you also investigate some behavioural therapy for him?

One final question: are you in Germany for the long-term and are you within striking distance of Munich? (I assume from your nickname that you are in Bavaria.) If yes to the latter, you might try investigating the international schools in Munich. I would probably move house to avoid special school, to be honest.

Hope this helps and has not depressed more than you are already, do come back and let us know how you get on. Good luck!

I would hesitate to put a child in the German "Sonderschule", Ernest. That's where they put all the kids they don't really know what to do with and you get a huge mixture of disabilities and abilities. The long journey to and from school would be very stressful as well for all of you, I would think.

I'd also tend to put him in regular school and see how he gets on. It's true they have no individual support, but he may surprise you and do very well. If not, you can get further advice and go from there.