missed deadline for Sept 10 entry now what?

[nancydrewrocks]

Some of you may remember my earlier thread on trying to secure a place for DD mid year in reception. I got some very helpful advice on here and as a result she now has a place not too far from where we will be living and we are on the waiting list for our preferred school.

Anyway since I got some fab advice I wonder if you could help with this:

We are currently outside the UK but will be moving at the end of the month. The move is at short notice and as a result I have missed the deadline for my DS's application for a reception place in 2010, which should have been submitted October 09.

If his application had been made on time I feel sure we would get into our first choice school (which is the one nearest to us) as it is practically on our doorstep. However the advice I am being given is that places will be allocated on this basis:

1. children within catchment area who applied within time
2. Children outside catchment area who applied within time.
3. Children inside catchment who applied out of time (my DS)

The school is oversubscribed.

The allocations are not being made until April and will be made to all those who applied within time and then if their are any spaces my sons application will be considered on a first come first served basis.

Is this the rules? It does seem unfair that despite allocations not having been made DS will have to go to the bottom of the list. We didn't miss the deadline because we couldn't be bothered - at that time a move wasn't even on the radar.

Any advice as to whether there is anything I can do?

Sounds fairly standard tbh. If it is Surrey, for example, they may well have already processed the initial applications, even though the deadline for notification can take a while longer. When we had to apply many schools did it around Christmas.

Sorry you'll just have to wait it out and if needs be put him on the waiting list. If it is the same one as dd will attend he may get sibling priority within the category 3 applications once she starts.

Have you spoken to the LA for advice directly. They may be able to accept late applications where there are good reasons if places have not yet been allocated. Failing that you have a good chance of being high on the waiting list anyway if your choice of school is the closest and it is quite possible after the initial offers are made one or two people at least will drop out.

Would you think it was fairer if you lived in catchment, had applied on time and lost out to someone who (for whatever reasons) applied after the deadline and got a place which would otherwise have gone to your child? There has to be a deadline, there has to be a period during which the applications are processed and there has to be some cut-off point. You will certainly not be the only person to have moved into the area after the deadline (remember the LEA will be dealing with applications for the whole county so potentially hundreds of "special" cases) and the whole thing would descend into chaos if they kept adding and subtracting people.

I don't think thats fair or legal. If you live in the catchment area when they allocate the places then that should be what counts. I know this as my friend moved in June last year and the initial allocations were made in April.

BUT the primary school made a late allocation (I think as a family decided to emigrate), anyway my friend's son didn't get the place it went to someone further away than them (who applied on time) so she went to the council (Barnet) to complain about the school and they said that the school were wrong because she would have jumped to the top of the list when she moved and so they got forced to take her son as the 31st child in the class.

Perhaps though this would only work with a 2nd round of allocations but most schools would have a 2nd round because of children who get allocated places in another borough or go private, or when a family moves but still applies for a place.

I would call the council as soon as you have your address confirmed and explain the situation and the date of moving and try to establish what the rules are on waiting lists when you move into the area (ie do you move up the list when you move into the area) - perhaps its fair not to get in the first allocation but you should jump to the top of the list for a later allocation - also say that the deadline seems very early for an April allocation eg Barnet where I am its 8th Jan, and Brent is mid Feb.

Thanks everyone. I have spoken directly to the LA and it is they who have said I will be allocated a place after all the other allocations have been made.

Lizs it is Surrey. My first choice for DS is the school which DD is on the waiting list for not the one that she will start at the end of this month.

Annh No I don't think it would be fairer if DS got a place over someone in the catchment area who had applied on time. I do however think it is unfair (and sorry I thought I made this clear in my OP) that someone outside the catchement area would be given a place over my DS who will be living within the catchment area when we have applied late through no fault of our own.

Looks like I am just going to have to sit it out....

Surrey schools don't have catchment areas as such.

Mvemjsunp really? Oh I don't know what is happening then....

There are two schools within a mile of us. One is a foundation school and they are very oversubscribed. They hold their own waiting list and the receptionist told me that priority is given to children that live nearest the school.

The other school near us is also oversubscribed and their waiting list is held by the council. The school administrator told me that we have to live within x distance of the school (which we do and we have had to provide proof) and that again priority is given to those living nearest. I have been sent a number of info sheets with long complicated descriptions as to how distance is calculated etc so all indications are that it is really important.

How am I supposed to find out where I stand if the advice I am getting from those in the "know" is not accurate?

Is there a good independent website for advice?

They use distance from the school to decide between otherwise equally-deserving students, but there is no magic line in hte sand.

Anyone is allowed to apply, and the school/LEA applies its criteria in order, usually looked-after children, followed by siblings, then distance from school.

In Surrey, the waiting list is ordered by distance from school (not when you join). If you live close to the school, you have a good chance of being near the top of the waiting list.

If a school administrator is saying that you have to be within a certain distance of the school, they are saying that based on experience rather than a specific line, I would imagine.

Mvemjsunp thanks. Ok that makes a bit more sense. I am slightly heartened learning the waiting list is ordered by distance as we really are very near.

This really is a learning curve.

We were caught in the same trap when we moved to the UK. It was very frustrating as the county couldn't find a suitable school for DS.

Hi, not sure if you have worked it out now, but basically, because you missed the application deadline then you will have to wait and see if there are any places after all the first (people who did apply on time) have been given places. If the school is good, then you are pretty unlikely to get a place in this first round.

But, if you live really close, then you will be way up the waiting list, possibly at the top, even though you applied late as once the intial allocations have been made, you will just join the mob on the waiting lists, but obviously you will hopefully live the closest.

The main disadvantage I found with Surrey (and grrrrr, because we didn't get any of our places last year so became experts on the system !) is that after the initial offers of places have been given, you have to wait a few weeks (like 4 or 5) until you can find out where you are on the waiting list. You can normally find out at about Easter. If you manage to get DD into that school during the Spring/Easter term, you can assume you will be at the top of the list as siblings get priority, otherwise you will have to wait and see.

From experience, there are those in the general area (I think we are quite close) who apply for state schools and will be offered places, but really plan to send privately, so there is definitely some movement in the lists. Depending on the number of Reception classes (whether it's one form intake or two) if you are in the top 3 then you stand a pretty good chance of getting in.

Glad you managed to get a place sorted for the end of Jan, at least you will get an idea of the system and general idea of schools then, even if you have to wait a bit for your first choice.

Helen xxx

Thanks Helen

As I said huuuuuuuge learning curve!

Incidentally we were offered a place at Wood St but turned it down in favour of Merrow on basis that I was a bit worried about travel, time as we will be coming from otherside of A3.

Hi, Merrow is a good school, I don't know the Ofsted report but it's in a really nice area (which I'm sure you know already), I'm surprised that they have places. My friend's daughter is in Reception there and she's lovely so there's definitely one nice little girl in Reception (not sure if it's one or two form entry though !)

Good luck with the move, hopefully the snow will have cleared in the next week (I live in hope, although I love sledging !), as it's horrible here it at the moment !

Helen xxx

Yes, here in Hants we missed the deadline (again, by immigration to the UK) but DS1 jumped to the front of the waiting list because we lived closer to the school than the next closest applicant.

You won't be treated as a late applicant because you have just moved into the area.Write to them and explain this

Err pantomime - she will be a late applicant - she's missed the deadline! That's the definition of late!

Fair or not, that's the system. One the on-time applications have been allocated, the late ones are. At that point a school will be allocated, and she will go on the waiting list for her preferred school. As she is moving very close she will probably be at the top of it.

Page 15 here

Titchy- The school admissions code (2009) says

'3.26 Admission authorities must not adopt procedures or criteria that disadvantage children who arrive in their relevant area outside the normal admission round'

Sorry to disagree with your interpretation panto - this just means they cannot discriminate and refuse the child a place becuase the applicatin was made outside the normal time. It does not mean the child gets a place at their preferred school, simly that the child gets a place somewhere.

Surrey Fair Access Protocol states that parental preferences may be taken into account, but cannot overide the protocol. In other words as long as a place in one of the LEA's schools is given the LEA has upheld the protocol, and it does not have to take into account parental preference.

Pantomime, Titchy is correct, when you are talking about admission to reception year in September 2010. There are clear dates by which applications have to be in to the admission authority. A few Local Authorities do operate a system where they will accept late submissions with a good reason (and moving into the area fits that criteria.) This is however a minority and even then it is only a short window and you would have to have moved into the area and be able to prove that you have moved, not be going to move.
I accept that this seems unfair but they are the rules.