has anyone got a child at a school in special measures? would you send a child to such a school? what does it really mean?

[docket]

We are about to move from London to Bath. Lots of reasons to go - family there, access to the countryside, mellower pace of life etc. But, it means applying after the cut-off date for school places for DD (reception) and DS1 (Y1).

I'm guessing, although not sure that this will mean that they end with places at an under-subscribed school and one that has just been put under 'special measures'.

Having read the Ofsted, the main problem appears to be the leadership (now sacked) rather than anything else. Obviously we'll go and see the school in question, along with others but I wondered if anyone had any experience of a 'failing' school and how much importance to place on an Ofsted report. My (possibly very optimistic) teacher friend tells me that schools can turn around very quickly.

We really want to move but I can't get my head around whether this should be a deal breaker. DS1 is currently in Reception at a 'good' school.

Hope this makes sense - have newborn and fuzzy brain....

Hello, Im a teacher and my advice to you would be judge the school by how you find it when you visit. Ofsted is not very accurate in my opinion. I have had friends teaching at a school that got put in special measures one ofsted next time round they got outstanding and my friend said that very little had changed. I also taught at an outstanding school with very strong leadership and was close to parents who still did not feel happy with some elements. Try to make sure you visit when the kids are there and talk to the new leadership team. What did they get for the teaching and curriculum? I have gone through Ofsted a couple of times and it has always come out well but it has been frustrating on what they have missed. I also felt that some of the outstanding grades my school achieved were not really deserved. The other good thing about a school in special measures is that they will be getting additional help and will all be working very hard to improve- so as I said judge it on your feeling of the school when you visit- I know competition to get jobs in the Bath area is really tough so any new hiring should be of a good standard. I hope that is helpful and not more confusing x

Thanks Littlemai, that's really helpful.

You're right, we need to go and see it before judging. It got a Grade 3 for teaching and learning and 2 for wellbeing. A 4 for Leadership and management and Standards.

There's just something very alarming about the words 'special measures'!

quick bump for the evening

This year my son was not offered places at any of our chosen schools for a reception place. We were (eventually) offered a place at the local school in special measures. When I looked around, the only obvious difference between the SM school and the others was the colour of most of the children's skin.
We took the plunge and have not regretted it. Good strong head now employed, lots of under performing teachers sacked, lots of funding and a lot of scrutiny from HMI; all good. Nice small class sizes too!
I found it much more informative to speak to the parents and teachers than read the ofsted.
Bit more hard work than might have been otherwise; I have become very involved with pta and generally promotion of school but worth it.
Good luck.

A lot of the Ofsted report basically tells you how good the SMT are at filling in paperwork.

A school in Special Measures will be given lots of extra support, funding and, in your schools case, a new leadership team.
A lot of schools find their feet very quickly once bad management is removed and can flourish under Special Measures.

Dd is in year one at a school in sm

We chose it over another, closer, pretty popular school

I love it. There's a new fab head, lots of new staff, an optimistic buzz and extra money so they do lots of trips, video conferencing with other schools etc

Has become really popular, from being less than half-full 2 yrs ago, with a scramble for reception and yr 1 places

So def worth checking out

The grade 3 for teaching would concern me if I am being very honest. But in some ways I would rather send dd to a school in special measures which is under the spotlight and receiving help than a satisfactory one that is being left to coast along.

You need to visit,

OFSTED Grades: 1 is outstanding; 2 is good; 3 is satisfactory; 4 is inadequate

all of a sudden satisfactory is considered to be bad. Perhaps OFSTED need new level descriptors.

The satisfactory debate is an endless one. As a teacher if someone said to me, you are doing a satisactory job I would be horrified.

I have taught in a satisfactory school and it was a place that even a hardened leftie like me would think twice about sending their child to.

Having just been through OFSTED I know the criteria for lesson obervation well, this is satisfactory,
The extent to which pupils acquire knowledge, develop understanding and learn and practise skills is at least satisfactory. Most pupils work effectively and are provided with appropriate tasks and guidance but lack confidence in improving the quality of their work. They generally work steadily and occasionally show high levels of enthusiasm and interest. The pupils make the progress expected given their starting points and some, although not the majority, may make good progress. Progress is inadequate in no major respect, and may be good in some respects.

What you need to bear in mind is that most classes are better behaved and harder working when someone is observing. So you need to consider what is normally happening. WSomething else that astonishes me, as others have hinted about, is that classroom practice makes up a small part of the indepection.

Having just posted that I have realised those are the new criteria and your school was probably inspected under the old criteria. The new guidelines are more pupil centred whereas the old ones are more teacher centred.

When I mark child's book if I give them a satisfactory it usually means you have done everything I have asked but with no flair but you have done enough to keep you out of trouble. Having taught in a school that was graded a it did feel like a similar judgement was made.

Are you really a hardened leftie, twinkleandpearls? Thought you sent your dc to private school....

'The extent to which pupils acquire knowledge, develop understanding and learn and practise skills is at least satisfactory. Most pupils work effectively and are provided with appropriate tasks and guidance but lack confidence in improving the quality of their work. They generally work steadily and occasionally show high levels of enthusiasm and interest. The pupils make the progress expected given their starting points and some, although not the majority, may make good progress. Progress is inadequate in no major respect, and may be good in some respects. '

Yes - a solid lesson with no whistles and bells, just bread and butter learning. Not a bad thing, but satisfactory, as mrz has pointed out.

As a teacher, I would also be horrified at a satisfactory grading - but that's more to do with personal pride, imo, and I don't think children who were regularly taught to this kind of standard suffer. They might be a little bored, perhaps, but their education would continue along lines of solid foundations.

Sorry - in my defemce the d and s are next to each other.

No my dd goes to a state school.

Perhaps a liitle to do with personal pride, although I suspect my headteacher and department wouls want to know why I was graded a 3 as well.

I was once given a 3 on a lesson observation as one pupil refused to do any work, I was gutted and tbh it made me question if I was in the right job. In the end it gave me a good kick up the bum to improve my teaching.

defence [ blush] I give up am going to warm my hands with a cup of tea

Sorry, twinkle, think I have got you mixed up with someone whose name is similar.

Some schools in special measures still do a really good job for children and can have lovely teachers and happy children in my experience. What they have failed to do is match the fairly tight template provided by OFSTED. Hope you feel confident that you can make your own judgement. I'd trust a mum over OFSTED any day in the current climate.It's not as though the criteria even stay the same.

docket there is only one school in Bath in special measures and that is a junior school. You'll be looking to apply for the infants, which is under different leadership and would have had a different inspection.

TBH I wouldn't let this be a deal breaker. There are plenty of good schools in Bath and you won't struggle to find a place - yes some are oversubscribed but there are no "sink" schools at primary level. Even if the school you are offered isn't your cup of tea, it isn't going to be dreadful and you can always get your dc on the waiting list for a school you prefer. Lots of people do this.

As an aside, the infant school with the same name as the junior school in special measures featured in a documentary series, which was lovely. I'm sure it'll come up easily enough if you Google it.

You may be thinking of me, a few years back we had our own private state argument at home and dp wanted to send dd to a catholic public school. I relented eventually and dd had a place but we moved before she could take the place and she is in a state school. I had threads on here at the time trying to work out a compromise with dp. In the end we moved.

You do need to visit the school, I have taught in a school in special measures, one graded satisfacory, one good and 2 that are oustanding. The one in special measures was in my opinion better than all of them bar ne of the outstanding schools.

I work at a primary (infact) schoolt hat is graded satisfactory. I have been there a year now; it was OFSTED inspected before I joined.

There are several reasons for this, and actually in many areas I feel the result is lower than it should be. It isn't a bad school at all, it is infact lovely, although very big (270 children across 3 year groups). It is also a very mixed school and we have several children who are EAL and several SEN children, so the results are not likely to be high.

There are so areas where you see a need for improvements - and a lot of work is going into these now. Loads of initiatives are in place, there is a lot of LEA support too.

It is genuinely a nice school in many ways, and hopefully the stuff now in place will pull up the areas that were lacking.

Also I should add that I have worked in a school in Special Measures. I was there when it was put in special measures (for some reason I feel the need to add that my lessons were graded good or better though ). This was a secondary school. And TBH, despite the head and governors claiming to be shocked and it being some big suprise, I was not suprised, and neither were many of my teaching colleagues. It was very clear where many of the weaknesses lie. I eventually left the school, but I know here - about 5 years later, that the school has a new head, many new managenment staff, and some new staff ont he teaching side too and is out of SM (was out within a couple I think) and is making some improvements.

I also worked in an outstanding beacon secondary school - and the difference was huge.

Often a school can only get a satisfactory because there attendance or achievement levels are so low. You need to visit and is possible speak to present students or parents

I've moved from an Outstanding in all Areas school to one that has just come out of special measures, and IMHO the latter is the better. Absolutely agree with the above that the OFSTED result can depend very much on how the SMT complete the paperwork. For example I know of a school where the supplementary OFSTED for RE was done without any of the teachers being observed, and comprised of a two hour meeting with the Head.

You need to go to see the school and get a "feel" - one thing that will definitely happen is that there will be a new team on baord and loads of money flung at the school for new initiatives etc - all of which will be good for your DC.

Thanks everyone for your comments, it's been really helpful and encouraging. We need to visit the school and make a judgement on that basis. I'm definitely feeling less doom-laden about the whole business though, so thanks again!