advice needed on Uk and Irish schools - similarities and differences

[dustythedolphin]

We are moving to Ireland and I need some advice about which class my DD should join. Unlike in the UK, we have been offered a choice of whether she joins the 5-6 yr olds, becoming one of the oldest in her class. Or the 6-7 year olds, being one of the youngest.

She will be 7 in July and is therefore one of the youngest in her class in the UK. She is struggling to keep up and she may be slightly dyslexic (DH has severe dyslexia). She also lacks confidence when reading and is very concious of being younger than all her friends.

The obvious answer would be to put her in the class of 5-6 year olds, so she will have the advantage of being one of the oldest in her class but I am worried that, if we return to the UK in a couple of years, the fact she would have been with younger children might mean she is a year behind in UK terms, as she would automatically be placed back in a UK class with 6-7 year olds (or whatever age she is then), her birthday being in July.

The UK seems to place children automatically according to birthday, where ther Irish system allows more flexibility, according to what is right for the child in terms of their development.

Can any one help me think this one through? I want to do what is best for DD both in the short and longer term

Thanks

My DS started primary school in September and turned 4 the month before. He is now the youngest in the school. The Irish seem to send their children to school at about 5 years it seems and I did get a few looks off the other parents when they realised how young he was.
The reason I decided to send him then was because he was more than capable ( Could write his name,count, knew his colours etc etc) and also because I knew that if we were in the UK it would be normal for him to start school at 4.
As it is we are hopefully moving back to the UK next year so he will just go into reception class in the UK.
If your DD has dyslexia and is struggling I would be tempted to put her into the class for 5-6 year olds as this may improve her confidence etc. If you choose to go back to the UK in the future I would cross that bridge then, you never she may improve greatly within a couple of years and happily fit back into the english system.
I would do what's right for her now.

My nephew has just been allowed to repeat a year as he is one of the younger children in his "official" year and whilst not struggling badly it is likely he would struggle more in the year he would have moved into. Perhaps you could try and see how she does in her correct age group and if necessary have her repeat a year?? Can you talk to the school and see if this is a possibility. It seems to be a very normal thing to them and certainly my nephew has had no bullying or issues with the other children in the school about the fact he is repeating a year.

Thanks for your advice kcc and bg - I think what would be right for her now is to be with younger children as it would increase her confidence, like you say.

BG - If she were to repeat a year, do you think she might be a bit self concious about it? Was your son OK about it? The school principle said he got his daughter to do a repeat year, so she is now the oldest in her class, rather than the youngest.

KCC - that's interesting about the start age, as I know parents have more choice in Ireland, whether to start their child at 4 or 5. I'm thinking our youngest would probably be ready at 4 too as he is very advanced, due to having two older siblings to copy. How long have you been living in Ireland for and what do you think of it? You said "hopefully" you'll be moving back to the UK

We've been in Ireland for 3.5 years now. I do like Ireland but I prefer the UK tbh. I've had lots of problems whilst I've been here though..antenatal and postnatal depression with DC2 mainly. I have felt quite isolated but then I went from working full time in the UK in a city to being a SAHM in the west of Ireland..so it was a culture shock! There are some lovely benefits to being rural though....we have our own free range chickens in the garden and have been lucky to keep birds of prey too. And the countryside is lovely.
Down sides I would say is the healthcare system. You have to pay for GP visits, hospital visits and top whack for prescriptions (I pay 65 euro a month for 28 tablets!), it's the same for children too, there's no free prescriptions, GP visits or dental care for them either. It very expensive too.
Where are you planning on moving to?

Hi dusty - it was my nephew, and no he was not at all bothered by it - it is very common at his primary school at least. He is 10yrs old now so quite old enough to think it through.

There is more flexibility in the Irish system - it's not uncommon to repeat a year so nobody bats an eyelid. Although I grew up in Ireland none of my kids have been in school there but my sister has three and we have had long discussions about the lack of support for dyslexic kids in Irish state schools (I have two). In general though the standard of education is higher than in the UK so it's a good long term choice. Your kids will have to learn Irish which could be a bit challenging when it comes to homework support

I have been asking for about four years to let my DD be kept back a year, they are well aware she is struggling, but they won't even consider it. I started her at just gone 4, which with hindsight was a big mistake. She is also possibly dyslexic.

I went to school in both Ireland and the UK and there was a big difference. I did the Irish equivalent of GCSE maths and got an F, I then got an A in the GCSE maths. (I'm rubbish at maths.) Of course this might not be the same now, it was rather a long time ago .

I also think socially, it is better to be the oldest in the class, than the youngest (my DD is the youngest and has had the wool pulled over her eyes far too often).

My sister and brother are both in education in Ireland and I grew up there. It seems to my sister that the kids in the UK do too much too soon are are likely to get left behind quicker. The pace in the early years is slower in Ireland.

I don't like the Irish system for a few reasons:

1. You have to study and pass Irish. Failure here means that you can't go to Uni even if you had As in all other subjects.
2. You do way too many subjects for the Leaving Cert (2 leaving cert grade c and above is equivslent to 1 A level)and you have to do maths and another language.
3. Very old fashioned approach

On the plus side it is more flexible regarding age and repeating years etc...

I would definitely opt for placing your DD in the class where she will be the oldest. Having an extra year of reinforcing the basics at her age would be invaluable especially if she struggles a bit currently. I went to school in Ireland and am puting my Dt's through the UK system in Northern Ireland . I have nephews roughly the same age as my DT's in Southern Ireland and have a friend who is a primary school teacher there. I would see the differences as:

More advanced work done in the UK for the relevant ages
Class sizes bigger in Ireland
Less special needs support and getting less and less with the current state of the economy
Have to learn Irish although if you are older than 8 when you arrive (at least thats the way it used to be ) you dont have to learn
Greater flexibility on when to start school although this can lead to an 18 month difference in ages within the same class which can cause problems too especially socially.
Fewer tests in ireland , no such things as Sats and so forth

No personal experience of the Irish system but, notwithstanding drosophila's comment that there are too many subjects in the Leaving Cert, my sister works in a (UK) university and tells me that the Cert is increasingly regarded as superior to UK A levels (probably more a comment on A levels...).

Have a friend who has their child in a school in Ireland but after being in school in the UK. He is 6 Yrs old.

The biggest shock was that school finished mid afternoon at 2.30?

ABD - that's REALLY early At the new school, the start at 9.20am and finish at 3pm, which is shorter than the UK, but good if you don't have childcare issues

KCC - where abouts are you, we'll be in Miltown Malbay, Co Clare

ESD - IKWYM about language support . My aim is to sort out an extra lesson for DS1 (who is 9) and I, so we can learn together and practice together, which will make it a lot more fun. I've been meaning to learn gaelic for , well, about 20 years

I am a bit worried about the level of support for dyslexia and if DD continues to "seem as though she may be dyslexic" I will get here tested, either in Ireland or the UK, whichever is cheaper, as we'll be popping back to see folks anyway

IABNoisy/Bellissima - that's a very interesing comparison, regarding the exams. That confirms what my view is anyway, about the dumbing down of exam standards in the UK - that's is part of the reason we want the children to be educated in Ireland

Paranoid, their class sizes will be 14 at most, as its a little rural school. TBH I quite like the idea of a more traditional system with compulsory maths and another langauge as they are both so useful, but them I'm a bit of grumpy Old Woman at heart - thanks for the comparisons, its very useful

My neice attends a school in Ireland - would agree that they are not as advanced in the early years. Also they seem to focus on traditional methods of learning - sight reading rather than phonics and rote learning for Maths - I wonder if it's these old methods that hold back the kids in the early years.

Pedal what's rote learning? Thanks

Rote Learning is where the focus is on memorising rather than understanding.

Dusty Miltown is lovely! But very small and rural, as I'm sure you're aware. I would imagine the small schools there would be lovely. I spent all my childhood summers there, and loved it.

The site www.ratemyteacher.ie might help, but I have found the reviews are often written by sulky teenagers.

The two main Irish parenting forums are www.magicmum.ie and www.rollercoaster.ie, if you ask there I am sure you will get good regional specific information.

@ Pedal, it is heavily phonics based here, and it is only times-tables that are to be memorised.

IABNoisiy thanks for those website addresses!

Cheers Pedal - I thought it was that.

Hi dusty, I live in Ireland, and all three of my dc started school at 5 and a half and none of them are the oldsest in their class. In your situation I would put your daughter in the 5-6 yrs(senior infants?)

Actually the primary curriculum was revised a few years ago and is now regarded as very progressive, and as others have said there is no testing which I regard as a good thing. All of my children have learned phonics and IME there is no rote learning of maths!

My two older boys are dyslexic and both receive daily learning support in a group of 3.

However all schools are different and my dc go to an Educate Together school which is multi-denominational and child centred, and may be a little different in ethos from a rural school. The curriculum is the same though for all schools.

Good luck with your move and let me know if I can help at all

Have to say.We saw no evidence of the Irish education system being more challenging/advanced than the English system.Quite the reverse actually.
Definitely look at the Irish websites.
Good luck

How could I forget the religion that used to play such a big part. Not sure it does anymore.

I think the leaving cert is similar to the International Baccalaureate in that it is broader than the UK system but I think this favours a Jack of all trades approach and doesn't encourage excellence. I am probably grumpy as I recall the hours spent trying to learn languages when I had nither the bent nor interst in them. Time I would have much prefered spending on subjects I had a passion for.

Good to hear some schools are now employing more modern methods - admittedly I don't have very much contact with ROI schools - just through 2 sets of parents whose children attend different schools in Dublin and both tell me their kids have to learn addition & subtraction tables by rote and the schools are not supportive of learning Maths through games or learning to read through phonics....

@ dropsophila

Religion is still big in catholic schools, and the majority of schools are catholic.

Phonics are great, though they have not helped my (suspected dyslexic) DD much

I rather like times tables, I still know mine at the age of 46 and they come in useful all the time, though I agree we need to understand rather than just recite.

Am feeling rather wobbly as DCs have just left old school (which we loved) and have yet to start new school (7 Jan) and am worrying whether they will fit in etc

The problem in the uK is often fabulous primaries and crappo secondaries

Can I ask a sensitive question: we are catholics and my DS1 is an alter server, so not worried about catloic education as such. Am worried about letting him alter serve in Ireland - are there sound child protection policies in place do you think?

Or rather, are there sound child protection practices in place now?

DES policy is that children are educated with their own age group. Legally, children do not have to attend school until the age of six so technically there could be a situation whereby a four year old and six year old are educated in the same class. In the smaller schools such as Miltown, it wouldn't be uncommon for Junior Infants, Senior Infants and First Class children to be taught in the one room (less than 30 children or so) so it's quite easy that readjustment is made if necessary.
Repeating a year is not encouraged, unless the child has been absent, for example, due to illness - many years ago there was a seventh class at the end of primary school which was seen as a prep class for secondary or useful when chidren (such as myself) were a bit too young/immature to transfer to primary. Each school has a Special Educational Needs Organiser whom you can contact, the Principal will also be able to advise as movement to and from the English system happens from time and time.
lol itsallabitnoisy