Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Are there any alternatives to Oxford Reading Tree Books ?

63 replies

Gelamum · 16/12/2009 13:35

My 6 yr old is quite a long way behind with her reading. She isn't SEN but I have had twins in the last 3 years and so have been lax at helping her at home, and its just been very hectic. ( bad mummy ) and also she is summer born and always finds it hard to keep up with her class in Y2.

ORT doesn't seem to appeal to her but she always wants to read books which are exciting but too hard ( eg Charlie and Lola but type is ToO haRd fOR beGINinerS ) or books on witches or anything not like ORT for a stimulating change.

Are there any others that are easy enough? with levels ?

Thought I could try and get a few second-hand, or even new, as I have three kids they will not go to waste...

Please help someone ???

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
maverick · 21/12/2009 13:08

nappyaddict, In my professional opinion the ORT books should be pulped, and that's putting it kindly. They've damaged the reading abilities of more children than I've had hot dinners

If you scroll down on this page you'll find 10 reasons why you should only use decodable books with beginning readers.

www.aowm73.dsl.pipex.com/dyslexics/resources_and_further_11.htm

muppetgirl · 21/12/2009 13:59

totally agree maverick. I use the Read write inc decodable stories from Ruth Miskin.

ShePeeTeePee · 21/12/2009 17:25

I wish my school would support my attempts to teach my DS with decodable phonics books. Unfortunately, they only seem interested in cramming him with high frequency words (most of which could be decoded anyway if they could be bothered to teach the code properly) and the ability to guess the rest from the pictures.

It's good weather for a bonfire Maverick - I'll bring our school's early readers along.

muppetgirl · 21/12/2009 18:39

ShePeeTeePee - there is nothing to stop you using both types of books. I actually feel this gives a more rounded way of reading anyway (though the ORT stories are very tedious)

Ds 1's school reads with them mon/wed/fri using ORT and we read every other day using the Read Write inc books. (ds was desperate too so this not excessive for him, wish he was the same about writing!!)

I feel Ds has had decodable more often than ORT which has given him greater confidence to tackle the random guessing needed for some of the earlier ORT tree books. The magic key ones don't seem as bad.

I asked for decodable books, the school said the whole word scheme was better but I disagreed so I pretty much did my own thing. He read to me earlier -we now use 'real' books and The magic key series - and fell back on his phonic knowledge to decode unkown words. Perfect, no random guessing, no need to look at the shape of the word or find clues in the pictures. He used the text to work it out. Which is exactly what mature readers do so why not start asap?

ShePeeTeePee · 21/12/2009 19:26

We do use the Miskin Read-Write and Superphonics books at home. We also read 'real books' where I can pick out the bits I think he knows/can work out while I read the rest. But what really annoys me, is having to try and undo the guessing habit that he is bringing home from school. How have you managed to avoid the random guessing and searching for picture clues when it is being taught that way in the classroom?

nappyaddict · 22/12/2009 02:42

maverick

Why are ORT, colour banded books and real books bad though? Which is worse - ORT or colour banded books?

And sorry to repeat myself but are any of these any good:

Ruth Miskin
Jolly phonics
Snapdragons
Songbirds
Floppy phonics
Glow-worms

mrz · 22/12/2009 08:04

Maverick have you seen Ragtime Rhymes?

They are very Dr Seuss like and I think the nonsense words help to check decoding skills...

maverick · 22/12/2009 09:14

nappyaddict,
click on the link I put in my last post and it'll answer your questions.

mrz, no, I haven't seen Ragtime Rhymes -when I get a moment I'll google for them.

nappyaddict · 22/12/2009 12:55

Sorry I did read the link but it didn't mention any of the reading schemes I mentioned.

I still don't get why real books and colour banded books are bad either. At DS' school they use the phonics system and phonics books and fit them in with the colour bands. Why is that bad? Once they are able readers why is it bad to read real books?

maverick · 22/12/2009 13:43

'it didn't mention any of the reading schemes I mentioned.'

Yes it does.

'Once they are able readers why is it bad to read real books'

Once they are able readers, it isn't.

nappyaddict · 22/12/2009 14:56

Where maverick cos when I looked I couldn't see them on the link you posted.

Why is it bad to colour band phonics books?

mrz · 22/12/2009 16:03

Sorry maverick my fingers ran ahead of my brain it should read Ragtag Rhymes not Ragtime.

www.yellow-door.net/products/images/ragtag3.jpg

mrz · 22/12/2009 16:10

I like Songbirds and Rigby Star Phonics for early reading instruction, personally not keen on the Jolly Phonics reading books although a big fan of Jolly Phonics for teaching letter/sound correspondence. I don't like Floppy Phonics purely because they use the Biff Chip characters but if your school is going to use ORT (and I know the cost of scrapping it and buying a good replacement is huge) they will give the skills to read the old books.
I'm with maverick in the belief that ORT should be pulped.

trickerg · 22/12/2009 17:46

Agree! Pulp them!!!

...but just replaced old ORT with 'new' modern Oxford UP books at school about Tiger, Cat and various other pixar people .... ughhh. Thinking of inferential questions needs a Phd.

mrz · 22/12/2009 17:58

We had Ginn 360 and ORT but I've just replaced them with Songbirds, Rigby Star phonics & Big Cat phonics. I bought the Rapid Readers for reluctant boys and feel they have been a huge success.
Old reading scheme books were parcelled up and sent to South Africa.

muppetgirl · 22/12/2009 21:03

ShePeeTeePee - It took a while for ds to stop guessing but what really did it was the decodable books. He could work the words out with initial encouragement. Also the books had a few pictures but not very detailed so they text couldn't be guessed really so he just learned that reading was better and quicker. Plus the books I bought were the black and white paper copies so the pictures weren't in colour and not that interesting.

He is coming to the end of his level of the decodable books and I asked him what he'd like to read next and he said 'real books'
I found some Big Cat Phonics books and he seems to enjoy those -especially the non-fiction ones! He is desperate to read the Dorling Kindersley Star wars books which he is almost ready for.

I think he really enjoys being taken as someone who can read and that he should be consulted as to what he'd like to read. I certainly don't feel that the scheme books give children any sort of empowerment or control and children see that reading is something that is only accessed through adults as they supply the books wihtout consultation.

anissa · 28/12/2009 16:46

Like Maverick, I, too, am a reading tutor (and a professional linguist). Also like Maverick, I agree that the ORT (and other similar "word-based achemes, which are based on the incorrect assumption that children learn to read by looking at "whole" words) is very largely responsible for the crisis in literacy in the UK. Unfortunately, teaching training still apparently perpetuates the myth that "children learn to read using different methods" - simply because the teaching establishment is too embarrassed to admit that it is wrong, and most trainee teachers are too young + naive to question what they are taught at college.

If we get a change of Government at the next election then it is likely the ORT will be shown up for what it is (i.e. an ineffective and confusing method) since a) schools will have to publish the name of the reading scheme they use on their websites, b) all children will be tested at age 7 to ensure they can read fluently and c) Ofsted will be forced to assess all schools on how effectively they teach reading - which - almost incredibly - they do not do at present. (Bear this in mind when looking at the Ofsted Inspection Report for your local primary!).

In the meantime, if your local primary is using the ORT, pester the Head Teacher to change the method used, but if they refuse, use a phonics-based system at home. Primary Phonics published by Educators Publishing Service (obtainable from Better Books) is excellent and has both worksheets and readers - or any other phonics-based scheme. If you have a child who is genuinely dyslexic -and the use of a phonics-based scheme such as Primary Phonics will show this up very quickly, since it deliberately introduces words like "ban" and "dan" at a very early stage, because a dyslexic child is likely to struggle to recognise the difference - then I would recommend "Teaching Reading and Spelling to Dyslexic Children" by Margaret Walton published by David Fulton Publishers, which can easily be used both by parents and non-specialist teachers.

Minette Marin writing in the Sunday Times yesterday summed up what primary school teachers should do very succinctly:

"Stop worrying about everything except one thing - do you know how to teach children to read? Were you taught how to? Can all the children in your class read (after age 7) and if not, why not? Forget all the other stuff that is imposed on you."

To which, I (and I suspect most other parents) can only say, hear, hear!

mrz · 28/12/2009 17:23

I think sadly the reply is ...many primary teachers were NOT taught how to teach reading.

gingernutlover · 29/12/2009 11:10

i have been a qualified teacher for 8 years and I can confirm we got bugger all training for teaching reading and phonics

i have taught reception and year 1 since i qualofied, with a bit of year 5 and 6 too. I have picked up everything i know about phonics and reading from my own research and am a firm believer in synthetic phonics

when i started my class reading scheme was mainly reading 360, but is now songbirds, floppy's phonics, jolly phonics and and few oxford reading tree. But I start them on the phonics readers when they are able to blend and only give the sight word readersa to those who are beginning to know sight words as it is so important for them to learn blending.

maverick · 29/12/2009 14:40

I hope that mumsnetters, be they parents or primary teachers, will find the following guidance helpful:

Guidance on choosing and using a ?decodable books? scheme with beginning/struggling readers:

  • Check that the publisher's information clearly shows the scheme?s progression through the Alphabet Code.
  • For ease of use, the sequenced introduction of grapheme-phoneme correspondences (GPCs) in the scheme should follow that taught in the setting?s synthetic phonics (SP) or linguistic phonics (LP) programme as closely as possible.
  • Alphabet code in the text should be cumulative, with previously taught code included along with newly taught code.
  • The inclusion of words containing as yet untaught code should be very limited.
  • Check that the scheme's emphasis is not on initial letters ?transitivity needs to be well understood..
  • Text should focus on GPCs, not larger units of sound such as onset and rime.
  • Avoid schemes which use predictable or repetitive text.
  • Avoid schemes where eye-catching illustrations are the main attraction - with text used simply as a garnish.
  • Avoid schemes where the illustrations have been deliberately designed to provide clues to the text content.
  • Check that there are enough books in the scheme to allow adequate code practice-this is vital for 'slow to learn' students- supplement with books from another scheme if necessary.
  • Check that the text is written by a knowledgeable and enthusiastic SP/LP practitioner
  • Make sure that, when listening to students read, everyone uses the SP/LP procedures to prevent guessing.
  • Students need to be made aware of the necessity to sound-out-all-through words they can?t read ?on sight?, except for those few words containing as yet untaught code
  • Students will find it helpful to pre-read any multi-syllable content words.
anissa · 29/12/2009 15:31

I agree 100% with Maverick's guidance.

Just in case any parent is thinking about investing in their own "reading kit" for beginning/struggling readers but is concerned about the cost, you can for example get a
full set of the Educators Publishing Service "Primary Phonics" readers (Storybooks Sets 1-5, a total of 50 structured phonetically-controlled books) plus the corresponding worksheets (which are of course photocopiable)for under £160 from Better Books(www.dyslexiabooks.co.uk). There are also additional workbooks and readers in this same series for those needing more practice.

I appreciate £160 may be a lot of money for some parents - but you can always club together with a friend. Any school where only "whole word/sight word" readers are used
is sure to have many children who are not learning to read as quickly and efficiently as they could if a synthetic phonic approach were being used - so ask around, and if the teachers are failing to teach correctly, do it yourself! Anyone can do it, using the correct materials!!

nappyaddict · 30/12/2009 00:56

anissa Are you a teacher as well?

gingernutlover · 30/12/2009 09:25

if you want to teach your child synthetic phonics then buy the fun with phonics packs from cbeebies, £5 each off amazon, or the Jolly phonics handbook for £20

admittedly these dont include actual reading books but you can get phonics readers off the book people like these or use the activities in the products i mentioned to practice blending.

Really not necessary for anyone except schools to spend £160 on a reading scheme IMO

anissa · 30/12/2009 11:20

nappy addict
I am a professional linguist (Spanish + French) and have also taught English abroad (i.e. as a foreign language). I currently also work part-time as a reading tutor with children with reading difficulties or who have English as an additional language (EAL)
gingernutlover
You are quite right that you can teach your child synthetic phonics quite cheaply e.g. with the Jolly Phonics handbook. I only mentioned the "Primary Phonics" scheme since this contains everything i.e. reading books + workbooks, which mean that not only does a child learn to read easily but they also learn to write legibly and spell correctly. The worksheets are also particularly good for EAL children since there are so many pictures, which help EAL children to acquire English vocabulary quickly and easily.

mrz · 30/12/2009 14:13

anissa can I ask if you know if the Primary Phonics is now available in UK English version?