Primary schools with three-form entry; does anyone have any experience?

[melpomene]

Because of increasing numbers of young children in our local area, it is possible that my dds' school will be expanded by adding an extra reception class next year. The school is currently two-form entry, so this means it would increase to three-form entry (ie eventually there will be about 90 children in each year and 630 in the whole school).

Parents have been invited to take part in a consultation about the proposed changes, but I feel I need more info to fully understand the implications.

Does anyone here have dcs at a primary school with three-form entry? What are the advantages and disadvantages?

I'd be very interested in any comments or experiences.

My Dcs go to an infant school with 4 form entry! I ahve no experience of a smaller school, but it hasn't seemed to cause any major issues. Both DSs were one of 30 in a class just as they would have been in a one form entry school. There are lots of oppotunities to mix with the other classes. I guess from the year group's point of view there's a lot of joint planning that goes on. The head is very good at getting to know the children!
The Nativity play is an interesting logistical thing - Mary had lots of 'helpers', as did JOseph! There were many shepherds and sheep!

DS1 is in year one at an infant school with 3-form entry. They also expanded from 2 to 3 form entry and DS1's year is the first year with 3-forms. They have managed to create 3 more classrooms so that they can take 3 forms every year and the linked junior school is doing the same in time to receive DS1's year in year 3. So far it doesn't seem to be a problem. Parking is a bit harder and the school nativity play has been divided into 2 different ones (nursery/ reception and year 1/ 2) and has a strict 2 tickets per family policy. It helps that it is an infant school only so it still feels small; that's no help to you though I'm afraid.

Yes my 3 DC are at a school (well 2 schools actually - infant and junior) with an intake of 80 so they have 3 classes then.

To be fair, all 3 of mine bizarrely are in small years so they only have 2 classes, but plenty of pals are in years of 80. It's fine.

Yes it's a big year but not a prob that I am aware of. Streaming is better (we do it from juniors) as there are 3 levels if that makes sense; a friend has a DD in a year of 80 with very few girls but if it was a smaller year there would be even fewer!

630 is a very big primary (the only schools in our town with 3 form entry are inf anf junior like ours) but with a good HT and staff it shouldn't be a problem.

On the whole I am in favour of larger schools - bigger friendship pool, more capacity for variety of activites etc.

Advantages are plenty of options to mix classes and frienship groups around.

Disadvantage less of a community feel.

DS1 went to a three form entry junior school.

Now, Ofsted thought the school was "good", and it got decent SATs results, etc, but DS jsut found it too overwhelming.

The whole school would be on one playground at once, for example.Teh lunchtime supervisors wre more like riot police than, well, lunchtime supervisors.

I'm sure if handled properly, with the school split into sections, for example, it could work, but I'm generally much more in favour of small schools now.

My post didn't really make sense, sorry.

The point about the pal with DD in boy-heavy year was not related to streaming, but rather a separate point ie that in a year of 30 her DD would I suppose be one of 10 girls; at least in a year of 80 she is one of 30.

Hope that makes sense now

Lynette that's interesting. At our infant school the FS2 children have separate playtimes from the year 1s and 2s which helps (tho of course it does impede friendships across the years - DS2 who is in yr 2 now has been chatting a lot more about a former friend who is now in yr 1 and so at last has playtimes with him!)

My DS's school (420 ATM, but rising each yr)7 yrs ago had an intake each yr of 45. 5 yrs ago they changed to an intake of 60/yr. It now has an intake of 90, from my DS2's yr, Y1. I have found that plus sides are they swap the children round each yr, so by the end of Y6, they know every child in their yr, so more friends, plus it prepares them to go to the local sec school (currently 1950 but rising from next yrs intake to reach 2250 in the yr DS2 goes into yr7). down sides playground is not big enough, definately not supervised enough at break (reception Y1 & Y2, 240 pupils, 2 teachers!), (Y's 3,4,&6 break together, but apart from the litties). I personally think that if it's managed correctly, a large school is fine, if it expands too quickly, and doesn't change it's working practices as quickly, it can turn into a shambles. Depends on the school IMO.

I'm assuming that your concern is around transition from 2 to 3 form, rather than 3 form itself?

I think that the issues are around how the transition are managed. For example will there be the budget to increase the number of reading books available, and library stock available? What about availability of clubs/sport teams/choir music lessons/drama productions - will those facilities be extended so that a similar proportion of children can access them? What about the school management team - with more classroom staff needed and more pupils overall how will the increased management requirement be met. For the dcs school parking at drop off and pick up became a huge issue as the school has grown. Is the schools travel plan suitable? Are the communal areas of the current building suitable, and if not what provision will be made eg is the dining hall big enough, playground etc. How much building work will be required and when will this happen?

A big school can have a different feel from a smaller school, but it isn't necessarily a bad one. But what would concern me most is how the transition is managed and whether it results in fewer resources/opportunities being available.

I agree in that it depends how it is managed. My dd1 started reception this year at a 3 form entry school. The 3 reception classes have their own outside space and working area, so they are not out at playtime with years 1 and 2 (It's an infant school but has a very closely connected juniors on the same site). They stay in their classes of 30 as they go through the school which enables strong friendships to form. One disadvantage I can think of is that it is a bit chaotic at pick up and drop off as there are over 600 children aiming for the infants and juniors at any one time, but my daughter doesn't seem to be thrown by it. They do not have lunch all together in the hall though, which I think is a bit of a shame. Those having packed lunch in reception have lunch in one of the classrooms as there is not space for them in the hall. They do separate nativities for each year and some assemblies are just for their year, some for the whole infants school.
The school is very well regarded so you need to live pretty close to get a space, which means that the majority walk, so parking is not as horrendous as you would imagine.
I think the practicalities of whole school activities would cause the biggest problem - ie would they all fit in the hall at once or play outside at once, when the 3 form entry has gone all the way up through the school and the whole place is that much fuller?

My son is at 3 form entry school, they have been this way for years so there are over 600 pupils.

Parking is a nightmare but only because everyone is determined to park right next to the door

The playground is divided and the "infants" have a different playtime to the "juniors" plus they have staggered lunch times due to the sheer number of pupils.

Our school is big enough, enough space inside and outside. Our school expanded over a summer about 5 years ago.

Streaming is done across the 3 classes so they make new friends too. Plus they get a mix of teachers and it means that bad friendships can be broken up a bit too.

It is a big school but means that unlike me in a teeny tiny primary school with 14 pupils in my year who then went to a massive secondary school with 180 pupils per year it won't be so daunting for my sons to go to secondary.

Our school is outstanding on Ofsted so we have enough teachers, TA's and parent helpers. We have after school clubs, before and after school care, music clubs, even a bums and tums class thing for the parents!

Hope this helps.

fizzy that's a good point about bad friendships being split up.

I have seen a fair bit of that - sometimes done on purpose, sometimes more of a "phew! Thank goodness he's in a different class" type deal.

I often wonder how they manage that at a one-form entry school. well I mean they can't, but it must be tricky sometimes.