London primary school league tables published today - help me decipher them

[iFoam]

Am on the Tube looking at the league tables in tonight's Evening Standard. I have to apply for DC1's school place this month.

Should I care more about the test scores or the value added?

We live between two schools. Visited both and liked both for different reasons.

Primary 1 got an aggregate test score of 280 in today's results. Value added is 100.5.

primary 2's test aggregate was 272. Value added 101.1

which sounds best? Highest aggregate test or highest value added?

With those scores they are both good schools with not dissimilar results. I wouldn't choose one over the other purely on the basis of those results alone - choose based on how you feel about them after you have had a good look around.

Ignore the test results - they are telling you as much about a particular intake of children as they are about the school.

Look at discipline policies, homework policies, size of school, staff turnover and approachability of headteacher.

What have you liked about them so far?

I totally agree with Ladymuck.So long as the test results aren't below about 70% you shouldn't worry too much.

It is really important to visit the schools, as you'll then know instinctively which one is best for your DC1.

Ignore - but if you want to look at anything look at how many pupils achieved level 5. My friend who was the deputy head of a school which didn't have such great results said that low level 4 results in a class could be due to special needs children and children joining the class late not speaking any english rather than bad teaching.

Again on value added eg my daugther's school got 300 on level 4 but under 100 for value added probably because those kids did so well on their KS1 sats.

It's so hard. We have visited both schools but didn't have a clear instinct which is best.

Primary 1 has an amazing reputation. Always thought we would chose it. It's small and that we liked. However it us crampt and the head is very strict. We thought the kids seemed scared of her. But all the patents rave about it despite our misgivings about the head.

Primary 2 used to be bad but in 10 years h'S turned it's reputation around. Great new head we really liked. More space but huge intake. The size worries us. Parents love it too but it's intake is more mixed. DC1 already at nursery there and likes it (there is no nursery at primary1).

I had hoped the league tables would break the deadlock. How do I find out about the higher level results of which you speak?

Based on what you say, I would go for school 2. Seems to me your gut feeling is against school 1.

i think the telegraph published the level 5 results.

What do you class as a huge intake? Is it a 3 form entry? Advantages of a larger primary are that there is usually more variety of extra curricular activities, more choices of friendships and not such a large jump from primary to secondary.

I second what Ladymuck said too. We had a lousy set of SATs last year, but that was due to transition of a new head, and also the number of children who had problems in that year. But if I'd been in your shoes and seen our schools SATs results I'd have run a mile. Shame though as it's great and the new head's fantastic.
+pinkteddy's right about intake - we've got 2 classes and it works brilliantly.

You may not have a true choice about the schools - sorry to be raining on your parade. Here in Richmond your DC as the oldest child will be given a place at the nearest school or no school at all, regardless of what you put on your application. I would advise not setting your heart on either school. DS1 is in year 2 now, and one of his friend's mums still has huge isshoos with the way places were allocated 4 years ago.

Thanks everyone.

Fridayschild - I know we will get whichever of these schools we put as our first choice. Everyone on our street always has. We are v close to both schools and proximity is the main factor (after SN and siblings). We are v lucky in that respect.

When I say huge intake I mean two form intake, except this year when they were made to take three forms as a one off emergency measure. There is also a large nursery. So there really are a lot of kids overall. It's good to hear there are advantages to that.

I will search out the level five results.

ifoam, do you live near B school and JB school? There's been a thread on here before about whether JB school has dodgy admissions, ie weighted in favour of middle classes. Certainly I know of a child at jb and in his class the one boy from a ethnic background mysteriously disappeared in yr1 to be replaced by celeb child from three miles away. I might be on wrong track altogether, but if I'm right I think the fact that B school gets such comparable results despite very different initial intake speaks highly in its favour. On the other hand, it's always quite nice to feel like you're in some exclusive club.

Good detective work Polly!

Good point about B getting similar results with v diff intake.

Did you choose B over JB? And if so are you happy with your experience of B?

Level five results are on the DCSF website.

You have to go and look at the schools. League tables are stupid and we should all stop looking at them. SATs are stupid and we shouldn't want our children being taught so narrowly.

Go and look at the schools. Talk to people who actually go there, not people who chose a different school. How many ppupils in the class? Are the children happy? Then go with your gut instinct.

2nd one sounds luch better to me. Also value added is really good which is a better indicator of achievement than SATS imo (as I am sure you know it tells you how much progress was made by children - so for eg if a child had SEN or ESL, they might not achieve level 4 but you would still hope they would progress).

Intake numbers not a problem. 2 forms is the preferred number in my LA FWIW. I wouldn't class that as huge. There is a school near here with an intake of four classes, now that's big.

My DCs' school has intake of 80 but it's fine. Good thing to have big friendship pool.

Oh I have just seen where you are! Have connections to area but not enough to advise on schools tho.

ifoam, I'm not in the area I just know far too much about London primary schools. I have quite a few friends in JB and they all seem to feel quite smug about it, and there are similar schools in my area where there's a sort of culty feel with the worship of supreme leader in the shape of an autocratic headmistress. Everyone is a real cheerleader for these sort of schools and nobody dares knock them. I'd like to believe that I'd opt for the more inclusive, mixed school (and that's in fact the sort of school my dcs go to in my area, and I love it) but I suspect if you'd given me the option of the v middle class dinky school I'd have probably opted for it. I suspect you might do what my friends did which was JB first then B second and see what fate throws your way. JB might have a whole class full of siblings.

But on other hand...
Just re-read your post, and the fact that your kid is in nursery of B would make the transition to reception easy peasy.

Hi there Ifoam I know these schools. JB is a very tight catchment - 7 places this year once siblings had taken their places, but if you get in consistently good academically, friends with children there love it. Very active parents assoc but quite a focused school - more about the penmanship than the after school drama club.

B is a great school, new head seems popular, again parents (from a much wider catchment area as you probably know) very supportive, offers a wide range of enrichment stuff. It is a bigger school with all the pluses and minuses of that - time will tell how the bulge class this year works out as it goes through school (and if it will be repeated next year - you may know that)

No harm in putting JB first and then if you don't get it or change your mind flipping to B - if local you would be top of the list if you switched. Good luck with a tough choice!

Ah hello there Sinclair, thought you might have something more knowledgable to say