DS hates school so much.

[ChocolateFace]

He's so unhappy, I think it's at the point where sending him is doing more harm than good. He's 10 (Y6).
Mu mummy instinct tells me to stop sening him somwhere that is damaging him so much. Home ed isn't an option, as he is already has a better understanding of maths and sicence than me.

I think the main problem is his class teacher, rather than the school it'self.

I don't have a question as such, but the (very experienced)head, class teacher, TA, and depty head, DH and I are all at a loss as what to do.

They all agree they have never taught a child like DS before.

Seeing his sadness is breaking mine and DH's hearts.

He sounds very unhappy, and the mention of self harming in a child this age is very worrying.

I would go back to your GP, if necessary to another GP in the practice, and explain again that your ds is unhappy, is angry and pass on the teacher's concern about his behaviour moving towards self harming.

Alternatively, I wonder if the school or school nurse can refer to CAMHS.

no school nurse can't refer to CAHMS, but you do need to get a referal from your GP....You seem to have had a mixed reaction from people who've assesed him from 'anxiety' to needing anger management....... CAHMS should be able to get to the bottom of this- keep pushing until you get something that is actualy helpful

Thanks for trying to explain...

from what you have said, it is as if his problems have just appeared out of the blue.

To me this goes against my instincts...in my limited experience, children with this kind of serious behavioural difficulty have a reason for it.

This reason may have come from school, or from home, or from somewhere in between... he may have been bullied, may be unhappy due to a change of circumstances, such as moving house, some other disruption...he may, unusually, be being (sorry) abused somehow by someone.

Just approaching it in a 'ds does this..why?...no idea' is not really cutting it atm, and though you have seen an edu psych I believe that he needs some actual investigative treatment rather than just a blank diagnosis.

You can't just leave it at that or you will be letting him down badly and then what hope is there.

Someone somewhere needs to establish where this behaviour is coming from, and fast. Getting some insight is the only way anything can change.

I'm sorry you are all going through this.

Thanks for your responses. He went into school very reulcatntly today...white faced, scowling, with negative body language. I wached him walk into the class room and saw the smilinig, shiney faces of all the other children, and the contrast between him and them was just so stark. I really do think the problem is at school, but then wonder how it can be, when all the other chilren are so happy?

I agree his is acting as if he is an abused child. I'm confident that there is nothing untoward going on, though as I'm with him all the time he's not at school. Obviously that points the finger towards me. So now I feel I have to point out that I do have 2 two other perfectly happy, well adjusted children. I have often thought that I'm glad I have them, just to prove it's not our parenting that is totally useless.

DS has always been different...from other babies and chilren since he was born...when he was a baby the noise of a rattle would make him cry. He would bang his head repeatedly on the wall or a door when he was 18 months if I didn't let him have his own way. He started nursery at 2y 9m where they adored him, but would discribe him as "quirky" (He loved nursery, and would run in with a smile on his face every day.We sent him 4 days a week, and when he found out it was open 5 days a week he was furious for not letting him go on the 5th day!Then he started school, and his eye was patched, so basically he was sent into recption blind. He coped amazingly, though, even though I did have to drag him into school many times...he would do a runner across the playgound and I would have to thrust DS2 who was then a baby and run after him to drag him back. I thought it was just normal reception behaviour then. He was brilliant in Y1, although his was still patched he had a very calm teacher, who never seemed to smile, but he responded really well to her. In Y2 he was miserable; there was a definate personality clash with his teacher, but he went in every day, head down and reluctant, but got on with it.He was always angelic at school then; I'm sure people thought I was making it up when I said he was difficult at home.

We have moved house several times...but always in the same neighbour hood, so he didn't have to change schools, and one of the moves was upsetting for us all because it was a house we had ben renting; the owners returned from abroad, and wanted their house back. It was a fabulous house, and we'd made friends with the neighbours and their children, and suddenly we had to find somwhere else to live. That was his 4th house move in 7 years, and also when he started school refusing. Teh school he was at at the time, just wans't suitable for him though. It was a state Junior school of 400 children, and although it achieved great SATS results and lots of children went on the the local grammar school, it just wasn't "homely" enough for him. I hold up my hands and admit I made a mistake in sending him there. He left at the end of Y3 after being excluded for 2 weeks (it was almost a permanent exclusions) for violence to wards staff and pupils. The staff at his old infant school, and mums that had helped in his infant schoolwere just that he could have behaved like that; it was so out of character at the time.

This is when we got in touch with private Ed psych/CAHMS/Hypnotherapit/Osteopath/Aromatherapist, and got him an English and a Maths tutor because he was missing so much school. (You name it we tried it)He had to wait a year for anger management, as it was in demand, and it did actually seem to help him, and it it helped me understand that it is anxiety that is the trigger for his anger.

He then had 8 weeks off school over the summer,and he slowly got happier and happier. He went from a child who would lie on his bedreoom floor staring into thin air for hours on end, and rubbing his forehead on the carpet in frustration so he had contsant huge scabs, to being a vivacious, wonderfulkid at the end of the summer.
One day at the end of that summer we all went out on a bike ride and DH said "We've got our boy back" and he was right. sad] Someone who married into our familyand met him for the first time then said to me "He's a good, solid kid" (She's American- she didn't mean solid in the pysical way)

We've been in our current house for more than 2 years now, though. We've bought it, and have promised him we will never move again. I do wonder if he doesn't really believe us though.

The only other things to happen in his life are the births of his siblings (DS2 was a shcoockk for him, as DS1 was 4, and, and suddenly my attention had to be shared) and DD was born when he was 6, and he absolutely adores her. (Except when she tries to annoy him on purpose)But really that's nothing other children don't experience.

The out of school activities he does, he loves, and is better behaved generally than other children his age. It's only in the classr roomhis behaviour is poor. We've had a total switch of behavour; when he was a pre-schooler (well untill he was 6 or 7 really)he ran me ragged at home. Now his behaviour at home is lovely...apart from when he is unhappy about school, and then he's quiet and moody.

So there you have it. That is everything.

I told the acting head of his school this morning I feel sending him to school is doing him more harm than good, and he offered me his sympathy. I offered him my sympathy for having to have him in school.

DH, DS and I are meeting with his class teacher on wednesday after school to discuss things, and we will meet up every wednesday untill Christmas.

s there anything else I can do? Is going back to the GP (I saw a locum on Monday) my best option?

I hope ive not read your post too quickly and missed something.

YOU are in no way to blame for this,perhaps your son is having difficulties on the lower side of the spectrum perhaps like many males he is reluctant to change,maybe there is no one defining 'problem',maybe he will go to secondary and it will be a 'lightbulb' move -maybe he wont.

This is life and the quirks of personality- hes got this far dont you dare blame yourself!!!

It doesnt matter how often you move my children have moved several times and gone to several schools - life is everchanging thats the cold harsh reality - you are doing the very best you can.

Im sure hes not the only one not skipping merrily into class and I hope that you can work through his difficulty with school this academic year.

Either way you are a fine mum and are doing your best .

Chocolateface, I'm really sorry if my suggestion of abuse made you feel even worse than you clearly already do. I was trying to cover all angles.

If he's always been very highly strung like this, perhaps there is something different about the way he operates - perhaps some kind of disruptive psychological thing going on, a chemical imbalance...that kind of thing.

I was thinking it had only been a couple of years, but the history you give makes it sound more pathological than behavioural tbh.

Yes, I think you need to see another doctor - as many as it takes to get him access to some proper diagnostics and help.

It sounds as though you have had a really tough time with this poor little chap. I can completely see where you are coming from and this could well be something beyond your control and unrelated to his experiences or your parenting.

I hope you can get some answers soon. Don't let them fob you off. The sooner you get some proper investigation and support underway the better for you all.

Take care.

Started to write my experiences but it got very long!

My advice would be to stick to what you know and what you have observed. You can see that he copes well with after school activities and not with class. So what differences are there. He coped well with the teacher last year and not so well this year. What do you think about the teachers. Can you see why this might be. I think you need to get some sense of what the issues are from your DSs perspective.

I also had children who went from happy co-operative play over the summer to hitting each other in the car on the way home from school (behaviour that I had never seen prior to DC2 starting school). It was so marked that I realised that I had to do something.

Eventually, I moved them to a very small school (less than 30 children). And it worked for both of them for very different reasons. For DC1 it was about scale. He withdraws in a class of 30 but copes well up to 20. He's now in a smallish secondary school and thriving. For DC2 it was about being able to work at her pace but also about respect and being treated fairly and as an individual.

DC2 was really cross when I moved her, claimed she was very happy at her old school, struggled with the new school for a while but now describes it as the best thing I ever did. It took a leap of faith in my skills as a parent to move her as it did not seem as clear cut a decision for her. But she gained at least as much from the move as DC1.

My only regret is that I didn't do it earlier. It is extremely stressful when you know your child is unhappy but can't see what the 'problem' is. But there are things you can say for definite about the situation, so I suggest you start from there.

Sorry so long. Also meant to say that often you can't see what the issues are when you are stuck in the middle of them!

After she'd been there a year, my DC2 was asked what she liked about her new school and she said 'being able to call teachers by their real (i.e. first) names'. This is her number one top thing about school but I'd never have known it if I hadn't moved her.

They both loved this school and rediscovered their love of learning. They now love school and don't understand why anyone wouldn't. I think it really is about finding the right space for your child, be it HE, a small school, private, state, whatever.

You are all being so lovely!

Juillet, you didn't make me feel any worse. I have thought about m own behaviour, though .I'm seriously going to make sure I stay as calm as possible. I snapped at DD after school as she decided to have a mini tantrum because DS2 was given a lolipop at the end of school (someones b'day) and she wasn't. I hadn't had time for lunch at work, adn she was tired. noticed it was all too much for DS1 and he went and shut himself in his room. I'm going to try to avoid anything like that happening again.

He was happier when he came out of school than when he went in. (Phew!)
I'm going to re-read all the posts on this thread and properly digest them.

Secretskill - I think your right. I can't see all the isues as I'm so close to it all.

Tbh although yes it is good to avoid as much upset as you reasonably can, something like an incident like you describe is happening in every family all over the world...it shouldn't be the cause of your son's considerable problems.

It sounds as though he has some serious issues going on and that isn't down to everyday things. Please don't be so hard on yourself. If it was you, all your children would be affected.

I hope you can get some more help with this. It must be extremely tiring to cope with on a daily basis, for all of you.

You could almost be writing about my son, same age same problems, except I know why my son hates school, he is severly dyslexic but get lots of help and support but still hates school and has all the behaviour and attitude problems to go with it. My son is being formally assessed for a statement of special needs at the moment and has been referred back to CAHMS (was self harming in Year 2)
It is heart breaking to force your child to go somewhere every day that they hate, I feel my son would be the same at whatever school he was at, he hates to be told what to do and hates being indoors and confined in a small classroom, he clashes with the teachers, thinks they are picking on him and really they are bending over backwards to help him, has been like this since year 2 but it gradually getting worse, I feel he is a ticking time bomb and am worried about what happens when he explodes!
It's good to hear I'm not the only one who has this problem, school just doesn't suit every child!

Could you ask your GP to refer to a clinical psychologist. They can find out if there is any underlying problem to the way he is behaving.

Maths and science aside would you be happy to home ed? There are many HE groups around where people all muck in and help teach a group of kids something they know a lot about. You'd probably find someone could help you out with maths and science if you could help out with something else?

I find the story of the deliberately and systematically breaking his glasses very very worrying. There is a deep underlying problem there which is manifesting at its worst at school, you have probably developed coping mechanisms at home to minimise the manifestations there but school cannot be that flexible. I also find their comment "he won't survive at high school" really unhelpful and worrying for you. They should not say things like that without offering help.

I would INSIST on a referral to a child physcholgist right now. Change your GP if he won't refer you. I think you may be able to self refer to a peadiatrician and/or psychologist.

It may be worth checking the special needs board as the ladies there have a lot of experience getting profesional help for children with sensory issues etc. and how to insist on getting help.

You can request a referal to CAMHS through your doctor, thats what I did.

Thaks for the last few posts.

Yesitsme, it's hard isn't it!

On a more possitive note, DS had a very good end of term. DH and I aren't sure what happened, but he seemed much happier during the last couple of weeks.

If we delayed formal schooling for a year, and reported NC levels in y3 or Y4 (nationally), think how many threads on Mumsnet would become redundant!

The longer I work in education the more I KNOW that we make demands too early for most children (particularly boys). To support this - nearly every Y2 class in the country is struggling to encourage Y2 boys to write. That UNIVERSALITY should tell us that we're asking them to do it too early.

I wish I could speak Norwegian, then I'd move....

Chocolateface, glad to hear that it is getting better.

It may not be as bad as you fear. It sounds like this teacher is quite tough and he doesn't like it. He is not getting his own way and is therefore challenging her. A lot of disruptive kids don't have psychological problems, but they are natural born leaders and seek to challenge authority and want attention and respect.

I am sure he knows he is behaving badly, but being a spirited child he will not easily back down, so the cycle can't easily be broken.

When you go to see the teacher, I would take him with you. That way he gains the attention he needs and also sees that the teacher is on his side, which will hopefully break the cycle of confrontation that he plays out her.

The teacher sounds fine, it would help if she could give him some role of responsibility in the class which would satisfy his need for recognition, such as captain of the quiz team or something.

I think he will then be on the side of the teacher and will no longer try to challenge her.

claig, I think you are right!

You've made some points I'd never considered before, thank you, I'm going to give them some serious thought.