Talking of school promoting healthy eating, why is ds coming home with lollipops and sweets several days a week?

[thegrammerpolicesic]

I've always been one of those boring mums who rations the number of sweets ds has and tries to avoid those which have artificial gunk in. Two or three times a week he's coming home with sweeties from school. Sometimes they're party bags for kids whose birthdays it was but who didn't have a party which is fine as that's down to the other parents but sometimes they are from the teacher.

I'm talking lollies and wine gum type sweets.

I'd rather he wasn't eating all this crap stuff on such a regular basis - I don't mind occasionally.

I suppose this is an AIBU really. It does seem to go against all these healthy eating campaigns.

The quote from mrz above

"The Government could be doing a lot of damage to a sensible campaign to encourage fruit and vegetable consumption by coming up with inaccurate statements and exaggerated health claims," Professor Sanders said. "Too much fruit and veg in under-fives can cause malnutrition ........"

should have ended with -

.....as I have proved with my study of Vegans"

This quote is from 2001 and refers to a comment make by Professor Sanders on the introduction of the Gov giving out free fruit to school children - I think we might need something more up to date to see if the program of free fruit was as dangerous as Professor Sanders makes out and maybe a more relevant study which involves a cross section of the under five population - not just vegans - whose reasons for adopting that diet are not restricted to the need to eat healthy food. Although if anyone has read the Vegan Lunchbox Blog you can't be anything but impressed with that child's diet.

Of course too much of anything will cause a problem. A diet consisting only of wholemeal products and fruit & veg doesn't sound like a balanced healthy diet to me, regardless of age. People seem very confused over what a healthy diet is and it isn't about taking one or two item and eating them to excess.

I would be interested to read a study showing malnutrition in under 5's as a direct consequence of eating a so called healthy eating policy.

I have googled but information on relevant studies seems to be thin on the ground (pardon the pun).

Try 2008 (in nurseries)

Nurseries were found to be applying principles of adult healthy eating to young children.

For years nutritionists have recommended a diet high in fibre and low in fat, with plenty of fruit and vegetables. Now, however, nurseries are being told the food they serve in accordance with these guidelines is unsuitable for toddlers and could lead to vitamin deficiencies and even stunted growth.

'Nurseries are applying the principles of adult healthy eating to the food they are supplying to young children,' said Sarah Almond, a consultant specialist paediatric dietician who has analysed the results of a trading standards study into nursery food.

'We expected the study to show nurseries were serving children food that was too high in calories, fat, saturated fat and salt, and low in vegetables and fruit. Instead, we found that the majority of nurseries had gone to the other extreme and appeared to be providing food that was too low in calories, fat and saturated fat and too high in fruit and vegetables.' This situation was putting children at the risk of developing nutritional deficiencies, she said.

The research also found that four out of five nurseries were giving children portions that were too small and only three in 10 provided them with meals containing enough calories. According to Almond, the under-five age group has different and specific nutritional requirements to those children of school age: pre-school children have a high energy and nutrient requirement. Because they have a small stomach and a relatively under-developed gut, they cannot consume large quantities of food at a time but need frequent small meals and snacks throughout the day.

In addition, too much fibre - such as that absorbed through over-consumption of fruit and vegetables - can result in insufficient intake of other food groups and inhibit the absorption of key minerals. 'Because a significant number of children attend nurseries from 7am until 7pm, the food and nutrition they receive there are key to their health,' said Almond. 'Nurseries are applying requirements of healthy eating for school-age children and adults to the one-to-four age group, who have entirely different requirements.'

In contrast to school meals, there are no government regulations for the provision of toddlers' meals. Guidelines from Ofsted and the government on healthy food for young children offer nurseries only general advice, with a suggestion that childcare agencies refer to the Food Standards Agency's advice on food and nutrition for young children. Experts say the lack of national legislation means the trading standards study, which analysed samples from one week's worth of breakfast, snacks, lunch and supper from every nursery in East Sussex, is likely to be an accurate reflection of the national picture.

'The majority of nurseries are confused or misinformed about what entails healthy eating for the under-five age group,' said Neil Leitch, campaign director of the Feeding Young Imaginations at the Pre-School Learning Alliance. 'They are over-focusing on the message about eating five portions of fruit and vegetable a day and forgetting that it is completely inappropriate to simply purée a meal that would be healthy for a four-year-old and feed it to a two-year-old.

'The nutritional content of toddlers' meals is a proper science and nurseries are simply not aware of vital calories, fats, carbohydrate, sugars, fibre, protein, vitamins and minerals.'

Purnima Tanuku, chief executive of the National Day Nurseries' Association, agreed: 'Nationally, nurseries face conflicting advice about food. Consistent advice from Ofsted and other bodies about nutritional requirements for this age group are badly needed.'

diet for under fives

?in today?s health-obsessed society, parents are made to feel guilty if they do not feed their children a diet packed with fiber-rich fruits and vegetables.? These are the ?healthy? foods that young parents are being told their toddlers ?should? be eating.

These are also precisely the types of diets of concern to growing numbers of pediatric medical professionals who are seeing increasing numbers of children suffering nutritional shortfalls, failing to thrive and falling behind on growth, as a result of unsupported beliefs about healthy eating. Parents are restricting fats, sugars, salts and calories and increasing fruits and vegetables, wrongly believing they can prevent their children from becoming fat or developing heart disease and becoming junkfood dependent. Sadly, these diets do none of those things, nor are they healthy for children.

Very few parents of toddlers have probably ever heard that the National Academy of Sciences has recommended children get as much as 40% fat in their diets every day, or that high fiber, low-calorie diets don?t enable young children to get the calories they need, and high-fiber diets inhibit the absorption of many nutrients.

But it's all irrelevant, saying too much fruit will harm a child. That's not the issue - the issue is sweets. Sweets are pure refined sugar, which has no nutritional worth to a child under 5 or over. We do not need pure sugar in our diet.
The op isn't talking about biscuits or cakes, but lollipops and wine gum type sweets, which are crap basically.

Every age group has it's own broad nutritional needs - babies, toddlers, school children, sedentary workers, manual workers, the elderly - that's not news - we've known that for years.
Ignorance of nutritional needs in the age group a nursery are serving is neglect & poor service on their part but does not convince me that a healthy eating policy is wrong or misguided.

Still can't find any studies which point to healthy eating policy as a cause for malnutrition, only warnings that it might result in malnutrition through an ignorance on the part of the nurseries in serving the nutritional needs of toddlers....will keep looking though.

Ixia I disagree that it is irrelevant we wouldn't be complaining if our children were leaving school with a nice apple or a cereal bar which in comparison could be just as bad.
The occasional "crap" item isn't going to damage your child for ever it's all about find a balance.

I agree with you. Should not be giving out any sweets or lollipops, ever at all.

At DDs school we bring in biscuits, no traces of either nuts or sesame (not homemade only bought, apparently H&S issues with home-cooking) for birthdays, so guess thats maybe once every second week, but they must be plain biscuits (eg digestives), no icing or chocolate allowed!

They are not allowed sweets or chocolate ever in lunchboxes. They are allowed crisps once a month on the 1st of the month only as a treat. Snacks can be fruit (inlcudes raisins /humzingers) or crackers / rice cakes only. If you send in any sort of crisps on any other day you get a note telling you off in bookbag.

After all this was slightly confused when the teacher gave them a mini creme egg for easter and when they gave them ice-cream on the last day of term.

To mrs gently - yes I was angry when DD was 6 MONTHS OLD and attending an all day nursery (Asquith Court) where they were feeding the BABIES very low fat yoghurts. Thats clearly inappropriate and I made formal complaint. But sweets and lollipops as well as chocolate are bad for teeth and have no nutritional value at all, and have no place in schools. Additionally many brands of crisps contain lots of salt which again not appropriate for young children.

I think the view school healthy food policies have that only fruit/ veg, low fat and sugar free is good is terribly wrong. The vast majority of children need a balanced diet, not being on a diet.

I've been reading your posts with much interset mrz.

MumNWLondon I positively hate for someone to tell me what I can give my children and when. Although I do never give sweets, chocolate or crisps to my Dcs in school (and seldomly at home) I would be tempted to put those items in their lunchboxes just to make a point that I am responsible for feeding my children not them. I have knowledge of what they eat in a day and how balanced their food is. The lunch time assistant and teachers do not have the whole picture of a child's life by looking at what they eat at lunch.

There is although a very big difference in treatment between the children who do have a school lunch and the ones who do bring a lunch box. I give a lunchbox to mine because some foods they cannot have + I am a control freek and need to know what they had a lunch (not only the menu but the quantity they ate) to make sure they get an appropriate tea in the evening. So to go back to it, I am supposidly not allowed to ever put : a slice of cake (homemade or not), cereal bars, a biscuit with chocolate as it is "unhealthy" while the school luncher happily eat crumble and custard, chocolate cake, and ice cream for desert. Until the school can prove to me that my children having something "puddinggy" is bad for them but not for school lunchers, I will just NOT follow the rule.

MrsGently "Still can't find any studies which point to healthy eating policy as a cause for malnutrition, only warnings that it might result in malnutrition through an ignorance on the part of the nurseries in serving the nutritional needs of toddlers....will keep looking though." you won't find one, as healthy eating definitely will not cause bad nutrition but eating only fruit and verg is not healthy eating as it is not a "varied and balanced " diet.

Primary school children are repeated again and again (In our school anyway) that anything that is not fruit/veg is bad for you. They come back home with it as well and become fussy eaters as they are scared of getting fat (10 yo DD1 and 5yo DS3 in particular) they are like sticks! You will not convince me that looking at a single food group as the only one acceptable is the way foreward for healthier children. 8 yo Ds2 has gone the opposit way, he used to eat fruit and verg every day, since it is "compulsary" he just brings them back home uneaten because it has become a chore rather than a pleasure.

I obviously can only talk about my family because it is what I know but here, the healthy food policy has done more damage than good.

Hi I personally think anything in moderation is ok - its what we do most of the time which is important

YANBU but be careful how you handle it (I handled it badly LOL!).

People always say it's "occasionally". Maybe it's occasionally from each donor, but for the recipient it can be every day.

It's not occaisional and it really annoys me. Pure sugar is not part of any normal diet, biologically speaking. And I hardly think one piece of fruit a day is over-kill. YANBU.

Also agree that diet requirements are not well-understood. But also, the relationship between lighter-wieght infants/children and diet is poorly understood, e.g. foetal programming can be it is highly unwise to try and 'feed-up' a seemingly low-weight baby/toddler.

My kids' school has a "friday is treat day policy" and if they've been good they get chocolate or a lollipop or something similar. I don't mind at all.

I grew up in a very healthy/mediterranean diet/culture, where nobody had rotten teeth as a child or even saw a dentist until adulthood and nobody was obese - yet we used to get nutella and bread or biscuits or sweet croissants for breakfast every day (not just me - everybody). We also had sugar added to all our drinks and fruit.

Maybe controversially, I am a firm believer that children need sugar as part of their diet. So no, I wouldn't have a problem with it, unless my child was becoming obsessed with sweets or not eating their main healthy meals because of the sweets.

PS incidentally when my DS1 was 2 and a half and not putting on weight/ was very skinny, he was referred to a dietician. He said that he shouldn't have weetabix for breakfast as this was filling his stomach for too long and not stimulating his hunger. We should instead give him high sugar such as very sweet cereals or biscuits!!

I think any teacher giving my daughter chocolates or gummy bears on a regular basis would be doing so for the last time about 30 seconds after I found out. She would be up before the head to explain why and making all sorts of overtures never to do it again. The school would also be put on notice.

End of term, certain occasional times are ok but just like nuts, they need to clear it with the parents. You cannot just go stuffing E numbers into primary school kids faces without any forward responsibility or accepting what a terrible example it is to the children.

Just what are these teachers thinking of ?

"The school would also be put on notice."?
What do you mean on notice? You mean you would withdraw your child?
And sorry but your child's teacher would not be 'up before the head explaining herself'. if you dont liek something you need to deal with it a little more sensibly if you dont want to be the parent from hell- or think again about private school!

Mrz your posts are fascinating to me as I always worried that DS wasnt getting fed enough at nursery- when I was there the portions seemed to small and they didnt feed them often enough
I didnt know about not using wholemeal tho. I use it for me and buy white for the boy, but he always asks for my wholemeal!!

Oh and to the OP
We havent had an issue with it
We get a sweet for most birthdays, so about 1 a week but it is a small chew or milky way or something so not a big deal to me

But I would be a bit fed up if he was getting sweets home all the time as it isnt necessary- and this is from someone who ISNT a food nazi in any shape of form!!