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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

SATS - It feels like they are setting Ds up to fail :(

45 replies

MrsMorgan · 18/11/2009 12:55

We had a meeting today to discuss ks1 sats. We were shown some previous test papers, and I am now even more worried about them than I was before and at one point I actually thought I might cry (i know pathetic).

The questions looked harder than I was expecting them to be, and quite involved, with seperate sections.

My main concern is that ds has concentration issues aswell as poor handwriting etc and this all contributes towards him hating school. These tests are just going to stress him out because there will be no on explaining what to do, and as his concentration is so poor, he could be sat there all day doing them.

I also think that the crap spouted about them making sure the children don't know they are tests is rubbish.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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Ingles2 · 18/11/2009 21:42

He will make more friends though, I guarantee...
I moved my boys from a tiny primary at yr 3 and 4 because they weren't doing anything about ds2's dyspraxia. He had no friends and was often on his own. Within days both my boys had a group of new friends and were actually happy at school. Moving school is not as big a deal as I thought it would be. It took me 18 months to make the decision and I wish I'd made it sooner...
Anyway, back to you...
If you're not impressed make an appointment to see the head. Compile a list of questions, all the things you want to know and go from there...

Ingles2 · 18/11/2009 21:45

It's no more than 3 hours MrsM, I'm sure...
The teacher should know your sons level, this is only a tool to confirm.
They've told you utter crap

primarymum · 18/11/2009 21:46

There is a "recommended time for most papers but, unlike the KS2 SATS, there are no official timings. For the maths papers as an example.,I think that 45 minutes is sugggested. Normally at the end of this I would ask if anyone wants to carry on a bit longer, some children do and some don't ( and most have already finished!) Some children can only work in short bursts so might do it in 2 20 minute sessions, some have the paper read to them and work in unison, some prefer to work at their own speed. It is up to the teacher to make the children feel comfortable and their efforts valued, not to stress them out!

trickerg · 18/11/2009 21:49

MrsMorgan...the tests are informal - they are used to inform teacher assessments.

The head is deluded if 'she wants the school to look better' because these results are not shown to anyone . Parents get individual teacher assessments, and percentage results that find themsleves on to various tracking websites are also based on teacher assessments.

The test results ARE NOT SHOWN ANYWHERE.

Yes, the tests may take about 3 hours, but that may be over a month!

As Pisces said, the teachers should be aware of any problems with your child. They shouldn't be depending on the outcome of a few tests that are going to be done in 6-7 months' time. They should be continually assessing all of the children.

buy1get1free · 18/11/2009 22:14

You'll be lucky if anyone bothers to look at the results other than you .... oh, and the government who then publish performance tables that make the school look good or not so good. CHILLAX !!

trickerg · 18/11/2009 22:33

But KS1 test results aren't used in performance tables!!!

The test results aren't used anywhere - only by teachers to help their assessments.....

NO-ONE will see the TEST results - not even the parents, unless they request to see them.

LRB978 · 18/11/2009 23:12

Mrs Morgan, last Easter I moved Ds from one school to another. He was in year 2 at the time. He had poor concentration and poor handwriting, amongst other things (he has since been diagnosed dyspraxic). The only thing he liked about school was his friends. Since moving him he hasnt looked back. Yes, his SATs results were only 1a for reading and 1c for writing (no surprises whatsoever there), but within weeks of joining his new school he was enjoying almost every minute of every day, instead of crying before going in and crying coming out. His enthusiasm was through the roof, and his new headteacher, deputy headteacher and teacher all commented on it.

At Easter, he struggled to do any independant work, and still does but can do more than he could. His weekly spelling test results have gone up from 3-4 out of 6 to a regular 8 out of 8. He now has time each week working on his gross motor skills, his fine motor skills and his social skills. School have put in a referral to Occupational Therapy. His concentration and focus are slowly improving.

And in the past two weeks, he has suddenly made noticable progress with both his reading and his writing. Yes, he is in year 3, yes, he is working at year 2 level, but the difference in his homework this last two weeks has been visible, it is almost as though he has just 'got' reading and writing. I say this so you can have hope, even if your ds struggles through year 2, don't feel he will struggle to the same degree all the way through. And do consider looking at other schools in the area, you never know it could make all the difference.

madamearcati · 19/11/2009 10:07

Mrs Morgan - I have 4 Dc , 3 or which have been through KS1 SATS.I know SO many parents who have been horrified at the KS1 papers at this time of year ,but their DC have come on so much between then and SATS time .
Also they will do some practices so your DS will be familiar with them.They don't mean didddly squat anyway.He won't know what he's scored and neither will any of his friends or their parents.

Original poster

MrsMorgan · 19/11/2009 10:48

Thank you for the replies. I shoud say that I really do not care what his result is in the SATS and I am not worried about them because I think others will see he hasn't done well, I just don't see the point of putting him through them.

Wrt changing schools, I am still unsure. Both dd's did well there but then they were both very keen to learn and ds is not.

Everytime I say that I think he is struggling, they seem to turn it around so that it is me being neurotic. The senco said she assessed him and nothing was flagged up, but I have no idea what the assessment actually entails as they didn't seem to want to tell me.

If money were no object then i'd be paying for him to be assessed for APD and ADD, because he just cannot seem to conentrate for long enough to do most tasks and anything you tell him seems to get lost between me speaking and him translating what he has heard if that makes sense.

Have just had a letter for a follow up appointment with a paed. Last time she was pretty useless, her conclusion was that ds has a very individual personality. He certainly does, and yes he is lovely and funny, as his teachers keep saying, but fgs is he going to be so lovely and funny in years 3/4/5/6 when he is still struggling and getting frustrated ??

Sorry have gone a bit off topic.

Oh, meant to add that I do have his name down at another school but no places at the mo.

OP posts:

madamearcati · 19/11/2009 13:10

I think they are given some very easy sort of pre-test so that LOs who would be completely lost are not made to sit them.

Feenie · 19/11/2009 13:26

Children are constantly assessed, from the second they set foot into Reception right up to Year 6.

If your child is in Y2, therefore, the teacher will know EXACTLY what level they are at already, and as such will not use the tests to support their teacher assessment if they are still working at Level 1 towards May/June, when the final teacher assessment level is submitted to the LEA (NOT the test result).

OP's school sounds nuts, the tests are designed to be delivered as normal classroom activities, no different to the everyday activities the children work on every day.

I totally despair of the stories that are still regularly posted by mums (and, on one occasion, a shite Y2 teacher) whose schools still think it's fine to put 6 and 7 year olds under ridiculous pressure. There is absolutely no need to do this, and hasn't been ever since the rules on tests/teacher assessment reporting were changed 5 years ago.

Feenie · 19/11/2009 13:29

Also meant to say that since children are constantly teacher assessed throughout their primary school career, then there is absolutely no need to panic just because this time round those exact same assessments are reported to the LEA/government.

Teacher assessment is made up from many sources of evidence, the least important of which are tests.

trickerg · 19/11/2009 21:01

'I shoud say that I really do not care what his result is in the SATS and I am not worried about them because I think others will see he hasn't done well, I just don't see the point of putting him through them.'

MrsMorgan - are you reading the replies to your post? NO-ONE is going to see the results of your child's SATs tests.

cory · 20/11/2009 18:01

MrsMorgan Thu 19-Nov-09 10:48:49
"WThank you for the replies. I shoud say that I really do not care what his result is in the SATS and I am not worried about them because I think others will see he hasn't done well, I just don't see the point of putting him through them.

Wrt changing schools, I am still unsure. Both dd's did well there but then they were both very keen to learn and ds is not.

Everytime I say that I think he is struggling, they seem to turn it around so that it is me being neurotic."

That is the whole point of having SATS.
SATS are a test of the school's performance, not of your child's. It's to check that they are doing their job properly. You seem to feel that they don't take his struggling seriously- that's precisely why they (not he) need to be put through this.

btw may have misled people about my own dcs experiecnce of SATS; I missed the bit where you said this was about KS1 SATS; I was talking about KS2 (and still not worried).

critterjitter · 20/11/2009 18:22

"Not to mention it isn't in the school's interest to get amazing results anyway - the lower the KS1 SATs results, the bigger the jump to KS2 (where the pressure really is on ). "

OrmIrian
How does this work? I'm interested because my DD's predictions for her KS1 SATs are way lower than her previous school's predictions and all independent assessments. Her teachers will not discuss this with me or look at any external assessments..........

Original poster

MrsMorgan · 21/11/2009 22:36

Erm yes I have read every reply, I am not sure what you mean. I know no one is going to see his results, and I didn't say I did think they would.

What I am bothered about is that he is being made to sit a test which he will struggle with and which will not benefit him in any way.

OP posts:

primarymum · 22/11/2009 09:24

Schools are measured by their "value added", basically the increase in levels of children between Key Stages, from end of key Stage 1 (ie yr2) to end of Key Stage 2 (ie Year 2) So if your child is a level 2A in yr 2 they are expected to be a level 4A in Yr 6,similarily level 3's are expected to be level 5's and if they are not, then you have lost added value. it would be easy therefore to "hold back" the KS1 results ( ie give children a lower level than they actually are) so that the progress between KS1 and KS2 was higher and thus value added was greater. HOWEVER, schools are also measured on their Value added from Foundation (Reception) to end of KS1. so if their KS1 results are held back, their value added from Foundation will be poor! Quite frankly it's much easier to just stick with the level they actually are!

neversaydie · 22/11/2009 11:05

You may be agreeably surprised. My ds had similar issues with writing and concentration at that age (still does to some extent). But he actively enjoys doing tests, and usually did far better than the teachers expected (we're in Scotland, so slightly different system).

So all my maternal dread about undue stress on my poor little boy was a waste of emotional energy on my part.

Unfortunately, passing the tests with flying colours didn't make it any easier to get him the support he did need with his writing. We have fixed that by moving him, but to be fair we did have other issues with the school as well.

Feenie · 22/11/2009 16:01

Mrs Morgan, if he is working below the level of the tests (i.e. at level 1), he won't have to do them anyway.

If he is working at level 2, he is exactly within the ability range that the tests are designed for. No problem.

Difficulties arise when schools tell children they are being tested, instead of treating them as normal, everyday activities that are no different to what normally happens in the classroom.

busymummy3 · 22/11/2009 22:38

I CAN ONLY ECHO THE ADVICE OF OTHER POSTERS AND URGE YOU NOT TO WORRY ABOUT KS1 SATS I HAVE 2 CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN THROUGH THEM AND WERE TOTALLY UNAWARE THEY HAD BEEN TESTED. I ONLY KNEW BECAUSE THEY CAME HOME AND SAID THEY HAD DONE SOME 'SPECIAL WORK' FOR THEIR TEACHER. THIS YEAR MY YOUNGEST DD WILL BE DOING HER KS1 SATS WHILE MY DS WILL BE DOING HIS KS2 SATS AND MY OLDEST DD IN SECONDARY SCHOOL IS ALWAYS DOING ASSESSMENTS ROLL ON SUMMER!

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