Need advice re friendship issues for DD (Yr 3)

[ShellingPeas]

My DD (7) attends a small rural primary school. In her year group (yr 3) there are only 4 girls, including DD, although she is in a Yr 3/4 class with a total of 8 girls in all. The children tend to associate in their own year groups and not mix much at playtimes.

My DD is struggling socially at the moment as she has no friends - 1 girl is super bright and doesn't really "get" my unacademic DD and the other 2 girls in her year are particularly "difficult" for want of a better word. Actually, I'll be honest, they are unpleasant and making my DD's life a misery. There is constant name calling and verbal bullying, turning away/blanking when my DD speaks to them (which I've seen on the way into school when she's tried to say hello), not letting her sit on the same table at lunch and other small things, but which added together make her life pretty unhappy.

I have spoken to the school, both last year when this first surfaced, and this year but nothing seems to improve. There is nothing physical with the bullying (so no 'evidence' such as bruising) and my DD isn't terribly articulate so struggles when asked to give details. I'm at a loss at to what the school can achieve as it all occurs either at playtimes or when the teacher isn't watching and it is DD's word against the other girls (who of course stick up for each other).

Should I look at moving schools to one which has larger year groups to give her more options? How can I make things easier for my DD? I hate to see her so miserable.

Find out what larger schools nearby have space in that year group and go and have a look round, then if you like what you see take your daughter for a visit.

It was precisely this reason of small friendship pools that I chose a larger school.

Unfortunately all 3 of the nearest schools have no spaces and she would need to go on a waiting list.

We have a good school a short walk away, but for oversubscription reasons couldn't get our older DS in there. He has had no problems with friendships at the current school they attend as his years is a bumper year with 27 children (the numbers in the year groups fluctuate quite a bit).

My DS is in Yr 6 so will be leaving in July so I was thinking that perhaps it might be best to take DD out and into a larger school for the start of the school year in 2010. But she still has to get through this year...

I would put her on the waiting lists now so that your options are open. Is there anyone that could help you out if you ended up having to drop and collect two children at different schools? Do any of these larger schools have breakfast or after school clubs that you could use so that you could collect from two different schools if necessary?

In the meantime does she have friends outside of school, or go to Brownies, to try and keep her confidence up a bit.

Does the existing school have a Learning Mentor you and she could talk to?

Can you ask the existing school for a copy of their "Anti-bullying Policy". When you have spoken to the school before was it to the class teacher or Head? I think you are going to have to keep on at the school to get this sorted, and escalate it if need be.

It's really hard and I feel for you, it must be agonising knowing she is unhappy.

I told my Y4 DD your story and she said look at a new school.

We could have written your message last year even down to the number of girls in her year. We changed schools at Easter and she is now in a class with just one year group and is sooo much happier.

We phoned around a few schools and my daughter spent a day at the school before she went it really was a relatively easy process.

Interestingly enough there were 2 girls who really gave her a hard time at her old school. I remember one of the girls receiving student of the week award the same week we had complained of her teasing/bullying.It just summed up the school really.

I hope things work out for you and I wish you all the best.

Thank you both for your advice - I will call the potential schools to put her name on the waiting lists and see what happens. It would probably be possible to juggle drop offs and pick ups if a place for DD comes up before DS starts secondary school.

I will also speak to her current school (again) and see what their response is this time.

Mozer - how did your DD find fitting into a school that already has established friendships? Did she find it difficult?

And your story about the award for one of the bullies just mirrors our experiences too - the ringleader, when in the view of the teaching staff, is positively angelic and is always getting star of the week/star of the term. It makes me cross.

In the meantime, are there any boys that she might want to play with at break? Sometimes the boys that aren't into football get left out.

There is a new boy who she has become friendly with and went to play at his house last week. Unfortunately this has led to more teasing because the other girls see it as "going on a date" and that DD and the boy are boyfriend/girlfriend. There's lots of silliness about kissing etc which isn't my DD's thing at all. Poor DD can't win really.

Sad that boys and girls find it difficult to be friends at age 7. My DS (9) was being teased about his friendship with a girl (by other girls). I went into school to speak to his teacher and they did a circle time about friendships which proved very helpful.
Funnily enough, the other boys who he is friends with didn't tease him at all about it.

We had quite a chat about starting a new school as she had seen children start at her old school and she was aware that for the 1st 2 weeks the 'new child' was very popular and everyone would want to be her friend. Then you become just one of the class.

In her class there is a larger number of girls than boys. I think it is something like 20 to 6 and it does seem that they all swap 'best friends' on a regular basis. It just seems like a 'normal' school to me. Children from her class always seem pleased to see her. It was definitely the right decision for her.

Does you daughter want to change schools?

Thanks for that Mozer - we are discussing the possibility of changing schools at the moment, and she is considering this as an option. It is quite a big thing for a 7 year old to think about changing schools and I think a lot will depend on how the next couple of weeks pan out. But I can't see things changing much as the 2 girls in question are unlikely to become less manipulative and controlling - I have known one child since nursery age and she was hard work then, aged 2!

You're right Shockers - it is sad that girls and boys can't be friends at 7 or 8 years old. From what I can remember, in the dim, dark past of my youth, I had friends who were girls and friends who were boys and there was little teasing about cross-gender friendships.

Well, today has been no better - I have to put this down on here because I need to vent to an impartial audience.

Poor DD and her friend (the one who is a boy) - he was supposed to come to play after school today but because of all the teasing the two children have endured at school today his mother and I have agreed that it was best to postpone things until it all calms down and then to arrange something for a weekend, rather than after school. It makes me SO cross that 2 lovely kids can't play together because there are such unpleasant children in their class. and again.

It just makes my heart ache to see my DD having such a hard time.

I have spoken both to the class teacher and the head after school and they have agreed to speak to all the children regarding friendships. DD's teacher is also going to speak to the girls concerned as there are now two older girls involved as well.

It's a waiting game now, both to see what happens at the school and what happens regards places at other schools in the area.

I'm glad you've spoken to the headteacher and class teacher. DO check that they follow up with their chats. I remember getting to the stage when I thought I didn't actually want my child to be friends with these girls as they were just plain mean. I do think her old school didn't listen or care.

In our case my daughter kept asking if she could change schools. When we said we would look in to it she made certain everyone at her old school knew. She didn't want us to change our mind. At the time it seemed like a big deal to me but it really wasn't. How does you daughter feel about changing?

Don't forget to try schools outside your county if you live on a border.

I hope she has a better day tomorrow. I know how hard this is. Just writing about it brings back all those emotions.

can you try fostering friendships with the girls (and boys) in the year above, and below (since they will be in her class next year).

If you can invite them back for play dates then you might be able to break down the year group segregation.

Our school is equally small and we don't have this sort of problem - and I think it is because we have friendships across the year groups. So I don't think it is an inevitable problem of small schools.

They should be able to monitor play times better and encourage wider friendship groups.

Big hugs to you from a mum who was in this position this time last year.

I would strongly recommend having a look at other schools in the area....visit them, if you like them ask if your daughter can spend a morning or day at the school. Also make sure the mix is right and you get to have a look at the children she will be in class with.......we knew immediately that our dd would fit in.

My dd had a horrid time virtually from reception...in the tiny village school....just 2 other girls in her year. I do not think schools handle verb bullying very well and this has such an impact on girls. I also had other issues with the school and I don;t think it helped my dd when I did a 3 page letter to the school critising it (you live and learn!).

The good news ...we moved dd and the only regret I have is not doing it sooner. During the last 12 months she has made some lovely friends and this has given her confidence to make allot more friends out side of school too....she's also thriving academically too.

How will your dd feel, well my dd spent a morning at her new school before we(she) decided to move ....she informed me only last week that she was very worried about starting the new school even though it was her decision....but she is very happy that she moved.

Good luck....

Lottysmum - I agree that schools don't always handle verbal bullying well. It's something which is a bit sly and hidden, whereas physical bullying can be more obvious and easier to deal with.

Mozer, we live right on the county border, but the nearest schools in our county are either full or no larger than the current school DD attends and good schools in the other county are so oversubscribed that it's hard to get places for local children, let alone 'incomers'. It's a case of putting her name down on the waiting lists and then, well, waiting!

However today has been better as the class teacher has spoken to all the girls involved and the teasing regarding the boyfriend/girlfriend thing has ceased. But there were still issues in the classroom with silliness over whether DD could use the same paints as the other two girls. She has been moved groups and now taken away from any group activities involving these two children and placed with children in the year above. I'm hoping this will help some cross-year group socialising - and as throckenholt has said, the school should be better at fostering wider friendship groups when needed.

I understand (via a teaching assistant) that the teacher is keeping a very close eye on things and will have the parents of the two girls concerned in to school to talk about the issue if things continue. I'm sure that won't make me the most popular parent at the school gates, but hey!

Hi, I have no advice to give in addition to the excellent advice given by others above, but I wanted to tell you that I sympathise as I too have had this with my DD. Somehow boys seem to be quite different. My DD is now very happy at secondary school, but it has taken years to get to this stage.

I am posting to say that this week is Anti-Bullying Week and the school should be mentioning this at some point and maybe using it to help your daughter.

Shellingpeas i am so sorry you are dealing with this situation, my dd only just started in reception yet already some of the behaviour between these teeny tiny tots has amazed me! What IS it with girls and friendships! I do hope you get to sort this out, rest assured from my dh (yr3 teacher) he sees all this unpleasantness regularly with girls so as horrible as it is, it is nothing personal about your daughter - it says so much more about the other girls immaturity than your dd.

Well, back again today, to say thank you for all your support. Frecklyspeckly, your comment about the other girls' immaturity is a good point - they seem to be very mature in some ways, but incapable of any empathy at all.

I was speaking to the mother of the boy my DD is friendly with and her opinion is that DD is picked upon because (a) she is nice and doesn't retaliate in kind and (b) she's a beautiful girl who outshines a potato-faced monster and a thin-lipped girl whose eyes are too close together! Her words BTW, not mine, (and said slightly tongue in cheek) but speaking as a totally biased parent, I am inclined to agree!

Poor DD came home in tears again this afternoon about things. I am back in to see the Head Teacher tomorrow, with DH for extra support. Unfortunately I get emotional about these things and tend to well up a bit so I want some moral support and backup.

No joy with any school places anywhere else. DD dislikes change and still says, 4 years after moving house, that she wants to live in our old house, so changing schools would bring its own level of stress I think.

So things go on... we will just have to foster her self-esteem at home and hope that these troubles will pass and things will get better.

Good Luck with it, reading posts on this website it does seem to be a problem with rural schools. Are you able to talk to the parents of these 2 girls? It is a different situation to mine as my DD was desperate to change schools.

Going off at a bit of a tangent I can highly recommend PGL family holidays for giving your child/ren confidence and making some great friends.Really really helped during Y3. Also good fun for adults too. Worth every penny. . . . and we hate organised holidays.