How to decide on the best school for DD - academic vs pastoral excellence?

[PavlovtheForgetfulCat]

By virtue of my job and risk issues around DD going to local schools, I am likely to be able to get DD into the school of my choice when I apply for her reception class by December.

But DH and I are confused and unsure about what school is the best for her. We have the option of 2 (well more, but they are the ones we are undecided against).

Choice 1. School a little way away, and likely in a different direction to baby 2 nursery and work. It has Excellent Ofsted reports for everything apart from pastoral care, which is has a Good for. It is renowned for being the best school in the area, people move to the local catchment area in the hope of getting their children there. They usually fill all their places by the first criteria, and occasionally the second criteria. They have something like 250 applications for 80 places.

It is very academic. They are extremely strict on home work from the outset, they are against taking children out of school for any reason, and they make parents attend an 'interview' before children start school to stress the importance of following their rules. Rumours are that they withdraw children if they are taken out for holiday etc, and for too many sickness absences, although I do not know how true this is. They will not accept any children on reduced hours in the reception year, or only 4 days, either the child does all week or not at all. They push the children hard from the off.

They have no outside area for the children to play, other than a very small playground. But they do have access to an enormous park which I beleive is used.

They have the best academic results in the area. Well above average. Some statemented children, and children with english as their second language, average I think. They forcefully encourage extra curricular activities.

Choice 2. Has good as its minimum assessment in all areas apart from Pastoral which is gets Excellent for. It has a good reputation as being a good all round school, it has extra curricular activities which are encourage but not forced, has excellent anti-bullying policies, great special support for those who need it. Has a slightly higher than average intake of Statemented (is that the right word?) children and children with English as their second language. It has a good all round reputation for academic input, but is not a High achiever (is above average, or average). It is more local, still not within catchment area, within 30 min walking distance from home and more easily accessible to and from work and nursery.

So. Our dilemma is that DD is very bright, active, needs pushing a little, needs to be occupied. We are worried if we send her to school 2 she might not be pushed enough. But then, worried if we send her to choice 1, she might be pushed too hard, being only 4/5. She has plenty of time to learn and grow and be pushed and encouraged and we don't want to be pushy parents, but on the other hand, we want to recognise and harness any potential she has, and give her the best possible start to academic study.

Also, pastroal care, is IMO very important. It is not just about maths and english, but about the whole experience of school - making friends, developing hobbies, having fun. I am not sure whether fun is too high on the agenda at the first choice, but is that for us to sort out, outside school?

I do not want to miss out on the chance of sending her to the best state school in the area, but I do not want to send her there if it is te wrong choice.

(Oh, and also, we will be taking her out of school in term time in the first couple of years. We have family in USA and it is costly to travel as a family of 4 each year, so we will go when it is cheaper and convenient for the whole family. I also beleive at this age, travel and family are just as valuable learning experiences as formal schooling. Please do not slate me for this, as this is not what the thread is about. I am not asking for opinions on this, but it has an impact potentially on school attitudes towards us).

So, how do you decide where to send your child to school if you are lucky enough to have a choice?

Pavlov,I may be wrong but I don't think your job will get you preferential admission. I sit on appeals panels and there are so many people with heart wrenching tales which should give them preference but don't.
There is no real choice, you can express a preference but school places are allocated in accordance with strict admissions policies which don't cover personal circumstances like yours.Even at appeals when it comes to primary school places there is a strict 30 class size limit which means Appeals panels have little room for manouvre.
Of course you may work for MI5 and be able to overule them.

Another vote for school 2, the commute would be a big factor for me. It's not only the inconvenience for you, but she would never be able to have friends back after school at school 1 either.

And school 2 sounds much nicer anyway.

I don't think that there is any evidence in anything you have described which suggests that school 2 would not push a child. Lower average results are an average and tell you nothing about how each individual child will flourish.
And I suspect that the difference between Good and Outstanding pastoral care will be imperceptible in reality - however school 1 sounds grim in it's comeptitiveness and pressure.
AFAIK no state primaries allow children to go part time - some LEAs have a January intake onstaed of Sept fo summer born children, but they are all f/t attendance, after an initial induction period of a week or so.
And you will not get 'authorised absence' for term time hols in many circumstances from many state schools - they simply aren't alloweed to authorise term time hols simply on cost grounds. But they can't withdraw your place unless you take your child out f more than 9 or 10 school days. I would have thought that without agreement for authorised absence you would risk the LEA withdrawing your place in any over-subscribed state school if you take them out for more than 9 or 10 days.

But visit the schools, as others have said.

inthesticks i was told by the admissions people. I did not ask, they advised it. And it is the case with others who i work with, as I work with dangerous offenders. They would have to move my catchment area, for safety reasons. It is not me asking, it is them advising. If my child goes to the local school, she will be put in potential danger. Imagine, me waiting at the school gates for her to come out, arm in arm with cute little girl, who runs up to daddy...'oh hello mrs pavlov, remember me, you sent me to prison for a long time, and I was very very angry with you, how are you, what a lovely little girl you have here, fancy a play date?'

If they did not move my catchment area, and I for some reason had to send my child to that school as could not get into another school, i would have no choice but to HE.

Yes, I am the head

No. But your description makes it v clear which school it is. I live near and I know a lot about it. There's no tolerance on term-time absences. Anyway, the commute will be a 'mare for you and your dd so don't do it

Pavlov, that's great. I wasn't meaning to question you, just to make sure you had definately got some kind of exemption.
I've sat on appeals where a victim of a violent crime was faced with the offender's family if she sent her child to the school that she was allocated.

I am going against the grain and believe if you have an academic child the school one would be the best option.

I may be wrong but having read your first post...it seems like the main reason for not chosing school 1 is holidays in term time....which I don't believe is a good enough reason not to send your child to the school where she would obviously thrive at!

Just my opinion....having sent my DD to a local good school but where she struggled to make friends because none of the children were of similar academic ability.

I also sit on admission appeal panels. I don't know how it's done in our LEA, but I know that there are mechanisms/exemptions to usual admissions criteria so that (say) the children of social workers don't end up on the same schools as their parents' clients. So the advice OP has been given sounds plausible to me.

As for the school choice, I tend to agree with lottysmum. Yes, an academically able child will do well anywhere. But they will do best, I think, in an academically-oriented school. I am not (repeat not) advocating hothousing, but I do think you need to get the best match you can between your child's interests and aptitudes (academic, musical, sporting, whatever they may be) and the school.

I also agree with lottysmum about not basing the decision on holidays in term time. Many LEAs at the moment seem to be having a drive against absence from school. Ours will no longer give any authorisation for term-time holidays and so any such absence will be unauthorised. OP's LEA may be the same, in which case the response to a request to either school for time off for a holiday is likely to be identical.

Thanks for the all posts.

The holiday in term time is not a major factor, for the choice of school, given, as someone else has said, its like to be an issue whatever school she goes to. I just thought it was probably relevant to our ethos regarding schooling, but did not want it to become the issue of this post.

i think my main fear about school 1 is that DD will be pushed into formal academic work too early, and the potential for her to love and enjoy learning as she seems to now, will be crushed out of her, and that should she encounter issues say for example, bullying, she may not get the support, or us as parents that she might need.

But then, I don't want to choice the 'soft option' because we are afraid of pushing her. I want choice 2, if we go for it, to be because we really beleive she will thrive best at that school, not because we are worried about the hard work of school 1.

In reality, I am not entirely convinced I want her to go to
school at all at 4! She is still so little! Although she will post likely be ready (i won't be!).

I really appreciate the posts, they have helped DH and I think about the things that are important to us, and I think we are leaning towards school 2, which we probably were already tbh, just needed to have our thoughts organised. We feel that the social, fun and happiness of school is important at this age, and feel that perhaps school 2 will provide this aspect better, and we can take responsibility for any further work she might need in academic areas if she is not being pushed enough.

madbadanddangerous similar type job to social work, yes. DH said though when I told him some people think we might not get special treatment 'oh well, then we home ed. Wont be the end of the world, just hard work' (its because he loves museums and likes the idea of being able to wander around them with DD in the week when its nice and quiet!)

inthesticks that is awful about having to go to same school as perpetrator of violent crime .

I really think that until you go and see the schools, you won't get a feel for the place. Ofsted reports are useful, but only alongside a personal visit. Things can change in a school reasonably quickly, as staff turnover has an impact, either positively or negatively. How old are the reports you are reading?

Your decision sounds a tricky one, instinctively I would say school 2, but until you have seen them then you really can't say which suits your DD best.