HELP! Stuck in a negative feedback loop with DS!

[2ManyPimms]

DS (year 5, age 9) is not "academic". Whenever we sit down to do his homework, Kumon, or any other task which requires him to make an effort, he has a meltdown.

I know exactly where he is coming from. I was the same. Perhaps that is why I am frustrated and (sometimes) angry that he does not "apply" himself.

Although I know that harsh comments to him during his meltdowns do not help but I can't seem to keep them shut-up inside. Comments like..."you want to go to grammar school but you can't handle doing a simple homework project.", "you'll never get far in life if you constantly dissolve into tears when things are tough.", "life is all about making an EFFORT, DS!", "clearly you don't care about your future if you don't make any effort to do your homework.". Not great, huh?

DH isn't particularly helpful either. Although he isn't prone to my outbursts, he says things like "Well, if you aren't going to try we will just send you to the Secondary school down the hill !" (The Secondary school he is referring to is a war-zone and DS would be eaten alive.) Another of DH's much-used phrases is "It isn't worth sending you to private school if you have no interest in doing the work.". (True, but not helpful.)

Not surprisingly he has very low self-esteem. I worry that my attitude, coupled with his lack of academic interest are going to completely undermine his confidence and I'll lose him once he enters secondary school.

How can I learn to "hold my tongue" and keep my comments to myself while trying to be positive and helpful to him? I've tried and tried and I am at my wits end! Has anyone else ever been in this position????!!!

I think you need to acknowledge the son you actually have rather than the son you both thought you would have.

He is not going ot be a high achieving academic child by the sound of it.

What are his strengths?

What are the school doing? What do they suggest?
If the school only wants high acedemic achievement you have put him in the wrong school.
Look at his strengths and look to those rather than continue to push him to be an academic. Would you shove him to singing lessons if he was tone deaf?

Continually telling your son he is a disappointment and you can't be bothered with him must be appalling for the poor boy.
You must concentrate on what is best for him...the person he is now, not what you wanted a son to be.
This will be hard, but he will become extremely unhappy if the cycle of disappointment and recrimination goes on like this.

Even if I managed to shut my gob and let him get on with it, how on earth do I get him to do the most basic of work to get by at school?

...I forgot...

He enjoys making models and reading. He enjoys science but may struggle with it at a higher level due to the maths involved.

How did you do it yourself? You mentioned you were the same at school.

good grief! I do feel sorry for your ds!
Do you have any other dc? Your ds sounds like he is under an enormous amount of pressure at the age of 9!
I would drop Kumon - ds1 did it for a year when he was 7 and now I look back and think what a waste of money and his time it was.
Does it really matter if he doesn't go to grammar school? I have many friends who went to private school, then uni but can't stick at any job because they have no self confidence and constantly feel they are not good enough - all due to the pressure they were put under at primary age.
Maybe you could give yourself a tick list of things to say:

1. something positive
2. something constructive
3. something positive and encouraging

could you make sure he knows what to do with his homework, then walk away and let him get on with it?

Terribly. I cruised through school with the very minimum of effort and KICK myself when I realise that I could have had a far better experience if I tried harder.

Stepping back from this and looking at your comments made me cry. I feel terrible. I know you don't mean to come across harshly but looking at it from everyone else's POV I feel like a monster.

Pimms, don't be so hard on yourself, it is perfectly reasonable to want your ds to avoid the mistakes you made. You only want the best for him, it is frustrating when he doesn't show any motivation, no wonder you get fed up.

What do the teachers say about his general ability, ie when motivated, does he perform significantly above average? If not, hard as it may be, I think you are going to have to re-adjust your grammar school hopes. Can you imagine how awful it would be for a child who is not motivated to be with high-fliers all day?

Good luck.

Imagine how your ds feels!

You are not a monster - you have realised you are not helping your ds. Now you can try hard to do something about it. If you try hard maybe your ds will.

But deffo drop Kumon.

There is a book called "how to get the buggers to do their homework" and other similar ones which MAY be useful.

I know it worked for my friend although he had a very clever, but lazy boy, so a bit of a different situation.

Kumon is designed to turn learning into the most miserable and tedious chore on the planet.
Maths games on the PC are better, and I am no advocate of using a PC for learning, but Kumon really is so dull and awful. If it is not compulsory drop it.

Your son may be stuck in the loop that nothing he does will get your approval so why bother with anything at all.

You will need to start praising him for things, even small stuff, to make him feel appreciated. Sitting down and holding a pen without going loopy...this would be an achievement for him so encourage small steps like that.

It may be an idea that you share your experiences of school, you say you were unmotivated as well. Discuss how he feels, he may be able to do something very well... But you will have to find that something!

Does your son WANT to go to grammar school ?

I find some of your comments very harsh to read so for a 9 year old to hear i can only imagine much worse.

'I know exactly where he is coming from. I was the same. Perhaps that is why I am frustrated and (sometimes) angry that he does not "apply" himself.'

Think about how you would have responded to the way you are dealing with ds. And what may have helped you.

'Whenever we sit down to do his homework'

Let him do his homework himself. The teachers need to see what he can achieve.

It may help him with his self-esteem if he sees that you trust him to do his hw?

I agree with Uriel about the homework.

I would lighten up on your expectations of him and yourself. There are things that he is good at and they may not be what you are expecting. If you make what is successful so narrow you are limiting him. He may be a great actor or painter who knows.

It is just the stress and worry making you say those things give yourself a break. Grammar school is not the only road to success.

My friends say similar and have similar misgivings, so first off don't beat yourself up. It's frustrating if they don't seem to want to try.

If me I would read up on this and try to better arm myself to deal with the situation as a whole.

There's a book called 'Mindset' by Carol Dweck which has totally changed the way I view things.

It claims there are two mindsets 'growth' and 'fixed'. A fixed mindset student would agree with the statement 'In school my main goal is to do things as easily as possible so I don't have to work very hard'. A low effort syndrome as described in the book. It's also the way students protect themselves. They view adults as saying 'now we will measure you and see what you've got' and they are answering 'no you won't'.

From the book John Holt a great educator said 'The worst student we had, the worst I have ever encountered, was in his life outside the classroom as mature, intelligent, and interesting a person as anyone at the school. What went wrong? Somewhere along the line, his intelligence became disconnected from his schooling'.

For students with a growth mindset it makes no sense to stop trying. The book argues with the right mindset and the right teaching, people are capable of more than we think. It's important to ask questions like 'how can I teach him' not 'can he learn'. The book argues you can change the quality of someone's mind.

A teacher or parent with a fixed mindset would say 'if I know a student's intelligence I can predict their school career quite well'. You have to 'believe' that a child can develop their skills and this is a growth mindset.

Fixed mindsets limit achievement, it makes effort disagreeable, it leads to inferior learning strategies. It makes teachers and parents judges not allies.

The book says that important achievements require a clear focus, all out effort and bottomless trunk full of strategies. Plus allies in learning. (That's a growth mindset).

The author said they knew they were changing mindsets when they found themselves saying 'this is hard, this is fun'. I've still got along way to go!

I think the book is excellent, easy to read, and has given me lots of ideas with how to encourage my children to learn and fulfill potential.

I would also recommend Guy Claxton's 'What is the point of school'.

Just to clarify...

DH wants DS to sit the 11+. I don't think that grammar school is the ideal place for him. DH's argument is that he doesn't want DS to be angry later in life that he didn't have the opportunity to take it. He is an average student without flashes of brilliance.

Homework just doesn't get done if I don't offer guidance and support. I'm not the only parent who does this. I've got his Parent/Teacher meeting tomorrow night, I was thinking of asking whether I should back off completely on the homework and if it doesn't get done, it doesn't get done and DS will need to make it up at school.

I think I owe DS a huge apology and I am going to have to find ways of walking away when I want to say something negative out of frustration.

THANK YOU all...you have turned the tables around on me and shown me that not only was I being negative (of which I was already aware) but helping me see it from my DS's POV.

Cortina - WOW! THANKS! I'll see if I can get these books from the library!

CORTINA - THANK YOU!!!!

I picked up the book "Mindset" from the library and WOW...what a super read! Since having started this message and having gotten your reponses I've completely changed my attitude towards DS. He is less stressed and so am I!

THANK YOU for your book recommendations Cortina, it helped tremendously! You are a star!

John Holt's other book "why children fail" is also fascinating.