Yr 3 staying in a youth hostel open to other residents

[luciemule]

Hello -haven't been on MN for ages but wondered if anyone had experienced the following:
Next year, my DD is potentially going on a 2 night residential trip and they're all staying in a youth hostel (a really nice one). However, when questioned, the school have said that the children will be staying in unlocked rooms of about 3. Once the staff go to bed at night, any other of the hostel residents could enter their rooms. I am very NOT ok with this set (case of Caroline Dickinson, Brittany 1996)and feel that further measures could be taken to ensure more security at night. I have written to the hostel to double check what they say and they said they issue group leaders with keys to lock all rooms but the school told me they can't lock the rooms due to fire regs. I need to talk the head about the risk assessment but she's sooooo keen on the whole school trip (as I am in an ideal world) and I fear she'll shoot me down in flames before I've begun. What's a good way to approach this and get a satisfactory outcome that doesn't result in my child not going (which is what we'd decide if nothing is done).

I wouldn't expect teachers to be on night duty but I would expect children to be able to go to the toilet in the middle of the night without the possibility of meeting strangers. At Kingswood the building is secure at night and the rooms just have internal handle doors. Children from other schools are on the same floor and access the same toilets. So 'strangers' in one sense but all the adults will have been CRB checked.

This one?

Educational Visits, Best Practice 2009 (or direct download)

Stuffit - all YHAs have an outer door (in addition to the bedrooms/dorms) which is locked at night.

But if there are unvetted strangers inside the locked door what's the point.

Thanks Prof good show.

stuffit - this is the issue. It seems the school could have paid for sole use but has not done so.

So is everyone agreed it's A Bad Thing?

Just trying to give Lucie decent points to help with raising the issue and getting it dealt with.

The school sounds like it could be complacent and lucie needs a strong case up front in the face of fob off attempts.

Are we talking about the 'non sole-use' being a Bad Thing or anything else?

Well yes -- the fact that unvetted strangers have access to the children's rooms. What else could I be talking about?

Children's area, not rooms.

And if it is a "yale style" lock they are apparently incredibly simple to open.

Ask what the school means exactly by staff being on duty at night. Because on trips I've been on, that means being the adult whose door the kids know to knock on if there's a problem. It definitely has not meant that a staff member stays awake all night, patrolling the corridors.
And if the school is leading you to believe that that is the case, then get them to be very specific.

As I have mentioned several times in this thread the problem of non sole-use can be easily solved if the school pay for sole use. Its not rocket science!

You've really misunderstood - I did not say it was crap, I said it was a crap choice of accommodation. Even the Ritz could count as that in some circumstances!

Absolutely. Is it known that the school will do this without a problem?

agree with you clam

And yes, the problem of non sole-use can be easily solved, the problem here is that the school have not done that! That is the problem! You seem so obsessed with defending the YH itself (or YHs in general) from attack that you've missed the fact that no one is attacking it, just the way it's being used - which as you say is the schools's choice that they could fix.

Oh I see.. Squish I'm sure youth hostels are safe enough, this is the school arrangement which needs to be adjusted.

Lucie do challenge this. It's not on. I hope you can get other parents on board and use some of the points in the best practice guidelines to make a solid case.

If other folk are staying there you need to ask who they are, will the school have access to their ID details, if they are vetted in the same way as the staff are required to be, and so on. They won't be, that's for sure. That's a case of poor security up front. You also need to ask WHY you are having to ask these questions: because for the school not to have asked them is (imo) a failure of due diligence.

Am bossy mare but good luck. You are not wrong about this.

I am going to ask the head tomorrow if they'll book the remaining 4 rooms and then (apart from non-residents being in the hostel eating and drinking in the restaurant/bar) the main house will be secure for the children. The external door of this main house is opened with a key code, changed daily.
I am SOOOOOO not attacking the YHA and funnily enough, there was a programme on tv last night all about and how it's changed over the years.........it was really interesting.

File - some posters on this thread have mentioned certain incidents happening in hostels eg the CD affair, someone washing inappropriately at a sink! and problems with drunks. I am not out to defend anywhere just trying to point out that none of these incidents happened in YHA hostels, in case anyone skimmed through the thread and thought otherwise.

thank you stuffit, makes me feel very empowered to take this to the head (she's v. intimidating). I went to her the other week about my fears for school security and she said no other parent had ever commented and what did I think, that a paedophile would come into school and attack everyone with a machete (sp)? I was dumbstruck that she was being illsupportive of my concerns, whether or not she actually agreed with me. She rules the roost at school and I don't think many ever challenge her. She hasn't known me for long though - I'm only just warming up!!!

Go for it Lucie.

ps sad to say -- but using the phrases "due diligence" and "best practice" will shiver her timbers I think. And carrying a highlighted sheaf of those guidelines will also help!

just huinting for some paper to shove in printer now - don't reckon I've got any - arghh! Will have to use a4 lined!!!

what a strange thing to say - the head that is after what has happened 13 March 95

Lucie, one more very quick point.

I am absolutely sure (though I haven't got time to look it up) that the head cannot randomly assign teachers on the trip to stay up all night in response to your complaint, unless they are already assigned to do that.

You'll find in the guidelines not only the recommended teacher student ratios but also recommendations for breaks and relief to ensure they are up to their supervisory role.

So if teachers are assigned in the correct ratios during the day (with no extra teachers to carry a bit of slack) they will not be able to carry out patrol duty at night because: a. they wouldn't be able to perform their supervisory day role effectively and b. there will be working practice health and safety guidelines for the benefit of the teachers themselves that won't allow it, and quite right too.

Hmmm - I really think I'll be staying with DD in a Travelodge and that's fine by me.

Having asked the school on Friday for a copy of the risk assessment, today, I got a sheet of YH guidelines about fire safety etc so they couldn't produce the part of the risk assessment I'd asked for.
The dep head chatted to me asking what my concerns actually were and so I explained that the main issue was non sole-use. She just kept telling me about stats and saying the coach trip up there posed a greater risk. I said I knew that but measures of controlling that would be taken in the form of not driving abouve speed limit, seat belts etc.
Anyway - she said she'd go to the rest of the staff with my views and see what could be done, if anything and then did go on to say that my Travellodge idea wouldn't be agreed to as it was unfair on the other children! I said ok, if nothing was changed, then she would just not be able to go. Knew I'd be hitting a brick wall.............but it did make me laugh how she didn't realise that I had looked into every possible aspect and they obviously hadn't! They didn't even know how many rooms had been booked or where they were situated.I think she might have been secretly imprssed with my research. Thanks guys for your help on this one.