Why do people resist european style sex and relationship lessons starting age 5

[Informer2]

Why do people resist european style sex and relationship lessons starting age 5

Ie we get 1 hour in secondary school... they will have had hundreds of hours before they hit puberty

Consequently european ie Dutch teengers are balanced, experts of sexaul health and contrception, understand bobdy lanughuage, relationships, the opposite sex, communicate better, are far more open with parents and teachers in what they need to know,.

No need for playground BS like you cant get pregnant standing up, first time, before fore first period, if you type a luminous watch around the guys willy (yes people do belive that one)

Kids ask gronw ups for info, they dont grow up awkward or embarrasing and discussing sex and relationships is like discussing a maths problem.

They have a fraction of the teen pregancies we have which are mostly in relgions immigrant families there.

And as a result of a massive decrease in teen pregancies much less drain on benefits, far less feral grow up to be chav and gang member psycho kids as kids dont bring up kids grown ups do who have finished higher education

etc etc.

It makes sense...

Innocent kids are the ones who end up abused as nieve and clueless.

And just as you know why boys and girls are different and why older brothers are facinated with girls breasts and older sisters love guys muscells and both like making out

Does not stop you being a kid and liking kids stuff as you are well a kid... no hormones yet

quote
By custardo Sat 29-Aug-09 10:25:54 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

i said

teach parents.

It takes more than one lesson...

First you would have to ban all tradition, culture and relgious thinking

Then alter them all so they never operate on crowd thinking... Ie they dont base right and wrong on peer thinking

You then have to shut down all the tabloids with their idiot thinking.

Get rid of the influence of all prevous generations and their families.

Then completely reeducate a whole new thinking and culture. To get all thinking in a open minded, no embarasment, no awkardness, no valuing innocence manner. So all see sex and reltionships and Im talking about foreplay, fingerign, oral sex, dressing up , sexting etc as normal and natural and something you develop into over teen years not that it happens over night at 16 as legal

Till you get a society with a whole new attiude to sex , nudity and relationships

thats what it takes

becuase its working so far isn't it?!

how long has this been going on in schools?

i remember my 19 yr old having a class in junior school - so lets see

there has been a 10 year president - but by your own analogies - its not working

Quote

schools should be left to academia, the govt should not exerpt social education through schools.

No as life is not about acedemia

And acedemia alone gets you nowhere.

Ie job hunting is about social skills, networking etc

its working where it has been applied properly fro a while example the netherlands

see links

SUCCESSFUL SEX ED COUNTRIES STATS AND INFO

www.advocatesforyouth.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=419&Itemid=177

www.stats.govt.nz/products-and-services/Articles/teen-Sep03.htm

(see stats at bottom)

www.channel4.com/learning/microsites/L/lifestuff/content/up_close/letstalksex/inde x.html

www.channel4.com/learning/microsites/L/lifestuff/content/up_close/letstalksex/dutch .html

www.channel4.com/learning/microsites/L/lifestuff/content/up_close/letstalksex/findou tmore.html

Compared to American religious freak based, ?keep kids innocent and they won?t have sex drives abstinence? programs
uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080312/thl-health-us-disease-sex-youth-0b0437e.html

http ://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/29/abstinence-pledges-have-n_n_153930.html

Production company that made the documentary series
www.betty.co.uk/flash.php

www.humantruth.info/birth_control.html

DUTCH SEX EDUCATION
www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/tcr/files/tcr/news/
europetour.xml#1119288090469::69980152 54475574609
Blog of American sex educator on fact-finding tour round Europe, including trip to Netherlands

www.mistymedia.co.uk/blog/2005/09/29/dutch_sex_education/
www.rutgersn issogroep.nl/English

good SEX ED PROGRAMME

sexperienceuk.channel4.com/

Isn't there a huge cultural difference re sex, between Netherlands and UK? Dutch/Scandanavians are relaxed about sex, it's a natural thing to do when you're ready. A sign of being grown up is having sex but you want to do it like a grownup, not like an overgrown child. All the same points apply to drinking alcohol.

Anglo cultures tend to be extremely uptight, it's super private, we don't talk about that. So the best way to let your hair down is to get A) Legless, especially in a very public way, and B) to have reckless sex, to be recklessly sexual. Being publicly drunk or publicly blatently sexual is in very bad taste, and extremely uncool in some continental cultures. But in Britain or the USA it's talked about as 'a bit of fun' to be out of control in public.

I don't think that any amount of school education is going to change wider cultural attitudes towards sex and drinking.

-A sign of being grown up is having sex but you want to do it like a grownup, not like an overgrown child. All the same points apply to drinking alcohol.-

exactly

"It takes more than one lesson..."

Yes - ongoing from when the child is born there are many things that could be covered approriate to a childs social and health welfare

"First you would have to ban all tradition, culture and relgious thinking"

why? i dont thnk we do. lets face it those parents who would opt out due to religious or cultural reasons probably are not the demographic this is being aimed at

however i dont think its impossible to have culturally sensitive models of parenting classes.

"Then alter them all so they never operate on crowd thinking... Ie they dont base right and wrong on peer thinking"

Disagree, in fact i think this is exactly why this method would force a cultural shift.

"You then have to shut down all the tabloids with their idiot thinking."

thats just a stupid point

"Get rid of the influence of all prevous generations and their families."

why? silly

both previous points you are refering to outside influences. this is going to be a factor that parents have to deal with and we could teacht hem to deal with it effectively.

this isn't Stalins Russia

"Then completely reeducate a whole new thinking and culture. To get all thinking in a open minded, no embarasment, no awkardness, no valuing innocence manner. So all see sex and reltionships and Im talking about foreplay, fingerign, oral sex, dressing up , sexting etc as normal and natural and something you develop into over teen years not that it happens over night at 16 as legal"

yes completely re-educate in some circumstances

"Till you get a society with a whole new attiude to sex , nudity and relationships"

indeed

"thats what it takes"

its unhelpful i always think in these discussions to cite how other countries are better at this kind of thing

they are other countries - different cultures and belief systems.

In an ideal world all children would be parented kindly and informatively. Parents would model good and sensitive relationship and sexual behaviour, and their children would all have self esteem so high that they would be confident enough not enter into inappropriate sexual behaviour.

Until that utopia is achieved, schools must do the best job they can.

"First you would have to ban all tradition, culture and relgious thinking"

"why? i dont thnk we do. lets face it those parents who would opt out due to religious or cultural reasons probably are not the demographic this is being aimed at"

Actually those are the ones this is MOST aimed at.

Culture, tradition and relgion is irrational no evidenced based thinking.

Something like the discovery show 'Mythbusters' which does scientific often zany experiments to test one way or another if something is true is the correct way of thinking...

Ie Dutch works copy dutch.

Relgion, tradtion and culture has things like forced arranged marriage as immoral ie rape whilst having homosexuality whihc is harmless as immoral.

its also the most anti sex ed and contrceptive thinking going.

likewise the tabloids wanting to spread outrage everytime somone wants to improve sex ed... or answer a kids question honestly.

I remember when the press ripped into a teacher mearly as they asners a kids question
'Whats a mars bar party miss'

With the teacher saying that was something the Rolling Stones band once did.

Ie they were cught using Mars bars as sex toys on their girlfriends and groupies.

This should make a good topic in sex ed on the basis of you cant get pregnant with a mars bar (so hand teens a crate load) but leaving chocolate inside could lead to infections.

Any nuts in the bar could lead to a very tabloid worthy death if the poor girl is alergic to peanuts

and anything oil based ie chocolate renders rubber condoms useless in seconds making holes in the rubber like acid.

But instead of encouraging talking issues like that in sex ed lessons it was outrage get this teacher sacked.

hence saying ban the tabloids.

And to change society you need to stop the older genration getting the younger one to make the same mistakes

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By custardo Sat 29-Aug-09 10:44:20 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

its unhelpful i always think in these discussions to cite how other countries are better at this kind of thing

they are other countries - different cultures and belief systems.

YES THERES WORKS OURS DONT SIMPLE

if you think that it is beacause kids dont understand sex ed they get pg try watching 'Underrage and Pregnant' on bbc iplayer

I read the title and thought to myself 'what an interesting thread title.'

Then I was put off by the OP who keeps posting multiple links that don't work and is less fluffy than me in her approach. OP, your ideas are good, your style is a little offputting!

Here's my tuppence worth...as a teacher there is a difference between what I tell my own children and what I teach (and am allowed to teach) in school. Parents have to take at least some responsibility as many are quick enough to complain if their children hear things they (the parents) are not yet ready for them to know.

Which links dont work? So can update the cut and paste,.. Im with the seeker notion above.

try to copy and paste them

What you need is teachers ready to take on the ignorant and ignorance inducing parents

Plus there are ways around the scarey parent issue such as instructing a kid with good parents then using them as a proxy to teach the others if they have influence.

Or direct them to sites like thesite, sexwise, ruthinking, brook advisiory centre and the

the site
teenage health freak

channel four site

emmergency contrception etc

Perosnally i would stike at the parents morality source... ie if they say we dont want my daughter learning about sex as we are good muslims show said daughter videos of girls stoned to death and interviews of victems of forced arranged marriages and blow the parents ethical code out of the water and try and turn the kid against the parents so no longer trusts them

Likewise got plenty of stuff on christinity like

here

showing how the Nigerian church has children killed when called witches

you seem a teensy bit anti-religious there informer. And you forget, not all muslims are from a Asian or Arab cultural background with a tradition of arrnaged anything.

Informer2 are you actually in the Netherlands?

It was a nurse who was stupid enough to discuss Mars Bars parties with Y6 children, not a teacher.

Bit anti religious in your tone Op..as 'religious' person/parent I feel it's very important my child knows about sex ..the Mechanics,the Emotional and the Spritual side..

By Feenie

you said
It was a nurse who was stupid enough to discuss Mars Bars parties with Y6 children, not a teacher.

What was stupid about answering a kids straight questions with a straight answer.

The purpose of going to school is to learn, the job of school staff to teach.

Now explain why ANY censorship, or ignorance should be allowed?

In relation to answering a kids question regarding a Mars Bar Party namely a term coined o when a 60s rock band was found messing around using Mars Bars as sex toys with girlfriends and groupies.

The problem wih this country is its support for ignorance, censorship and stupidity hence why the UK are the thick yobs who get he most teen pregancies in Europe.

Kids should demand the facts and the facts are thus.

1. Nobody as far as I know has EVER got pregnant via a popular chocolate bar snack.

1. Nobody has got a std via insertion of a chocolate bar into their reproductive channel.

1. The only risks involved are that anything oil based ie chocolate would render condoms useless in seconds as he oil attacks the rubber like acid making holes big enough for viruses in 30 and bacteria and sperm in less than 60. Also if the chocoalte is licked out or the bar consumed there is he danger of oral transmition of stds.

But non as far as can be seen scientifically from using a chocolate bar as a sex toy.

However safe sex fun and pleasure could be derived from such an act.

Thus looking at this logically and intelligently and given that teengers tend to be horney and wanting to jump the gun and make out there is a strong argument in encouraging the use of sex toys including chocolate bars as an alernative to actual intercause with its associated risks of stds and pregnancy.

Thus it was not he nurse who was acting in a silly and ignorant manner but the histerical non thinking parents, head teachers and tabloids.

Try beating that logic. Only based on facts and rationality...

No relgion, moral, popular opinion, culture, tradition.... simply the facts

Whats wrong with being anti relgious bearing in mind the ignorance and stupidity in beliving anything unproven then basing your morality and why of life of a belief sysem responsible for many wars, inquisitions, torture, child abuse, sexisim, homophobia, injustice, irrationaliy, flying in the face of facts, unfairness, terrorisim and all things bad including some of the most horrific acts possible including

Female genital mutilation where 9 year old girls vaginas are sewn up after their cliterous is sliced off and labias to keep her pure for her husband?

By the billion where vertually whole countires do this.

Likewise forced arranged marriage

Likewise relgions legal systems executing girls by torture like stoning to death which can ake over half an hour done to teenage girls screaming for their mother with eyes handing out of sockets no teeth no face

Likewise homophobia (what have gays done to anyone?) where gays are jailed or killed

Supporting relgions systems (look up a documentry called 'Saving Africas Witch Children) like christianity that carry on the works of the christian inquistion only instead or torturing and murdering smart girls who heal the sick hey hack to death with machettes or burn alive little children simply as they are called witches.

In ireland teenage girls were by the 30,000 inprisioned in Dickensian (up to 1996) for lifeworkshop like conditions constantly beaten and abused even raped by cathlolic priests and nuns wih the full knowlege and support of the communiy and police who rounded up any escapies, especailly those teen mums who simply wanted to keep their babies and not have them torn from heir arms and sold by the nuns.

Mums here should realate to that one...

Look up a documenarty 'Sex in a cold Climate' and the drama portraying this (very tame in compared tot the reality called the 'Magdelen Sisters' inspired by said documentry.

Look at whole 3rd world countries where the church bans use of condoms and sex education.

Look at South America ie Nicruagua where even 8/9 year old rape victems are forced to give birth denied abortions.

And how the vatican supported child abuse with orders direct from the last pope to cover it up...

Its not the anti relgious that have a problem its those who support all the above in the name of puritan, sexaul repression.

Maninly as open sexulaity empowers young single females in getting males to do and give them what they want.

With the relgious hating the power competition.,

Thought I would copy this over as clearly relavant to the post

For education info Try the following

the channel 4 Sex education site

programme 1
programme 2
programme 2b

This is worth going through as well

Big list of sexaul health, youth and sexaul health services

You also need to pre-empt playground nonsense myths your kids may pick out by getting in there first being open making sure he knows he can discuss anything with you or another male (dad, brother, family friend who can pull girls etc)

So he does not pick up nonsense like

Sperm dies in air

Pulling out can prevent pregnancy (This belief is responsible for most teen pregancies as schools dont teach about precum sperm leaked from the penis ALL THE TIME ITS ERECT... 1,000,000 per drop before ejeculation),

Any nonsense about safe times of the monh, cant get pregant first time, virgins cant have stds (many are blood transmitted ie fights, sport, first Aid or can enter the eyes)

etc

You also need to cover things like is normal for boys and girls to masterbate so he does not think he is a perverted freak likewise that males tend to get facinated with breats and thats simply part of human attraction likewise females end to prefer muscells of a guy.

(that way you dont end up with a kid who is a basket case thinking they are some sort of perverted freak needing years of councelling as nobody told them your perfectly normal and all guys think like that)

Much of Europe where they have a tiny teen pregancy rate compared to the uk... the worst in the UK so clearly most in the UK are wrong in saying you should wait and teach as little as possible) starts sex and relationship education aged around 4 and 5 and its part of the curriculum ill late teens so we are talking hundreds of hours of lessons.

It clearly works

Supporting statistical data 1

supporting statistical data 2

I can't be bothered to debate on a parenting forum why the issue of Mars bars parties shouldn't be discussed with 10 and 11 year olds.

You clearly are not a parent.

You sound like a loon poster from the TES forums called Chris - I wouldn't be surprised if you were one and the same.

I think that the reason to have sex education in schools is to put right the ill informed information that children pick up from peers, on the school bus, magazines and older siblings.

However, it does not prevent teenage pregnancies because
a) there are many girls for who pregnancy is a better option than the other options.
b) in the end all people are capable of making mistakes, especially when younger.

why can't we have dutch-style sex education?

Because we don't have dutch-style adults to deliver it as parents or teachers, our whole society is far too 'benny hill' for the dutch approach... you need adults that can talk openly about sex without sniggering or going red and who are comfortable with nakedness and the human body before you can have teenagers who can.

But we aren't talking about teenagers, are we?

This is the Primary Ed forum.