can state primary education plus tutoring = equivalent of private?

[wheelsonthebus]

we planned to privately educate dc, but dh lost his job and now dc is going to a state primary - downgraded from good to satisfactory by ofsted . if we have dc tutored from yr 1 say, can we get up to standard of a private school(with a view to moving dc if our finances improve - possibly at 7, but definitely at 11). Can an hour a week really achieve anything? Anyone done this from early on? Interested in any views. I now work f/t so doing lots of stuff with dc after school myself is not really an option (except at weekends). I'd be interested to know when tutoring shd really start. My friend said her primary school gets great league table results but that's because most parents pay tutors. Also; what do most people get tutors for - maths or English or both?

I don't think a specialist teacher necessarily "drills" for example our English teacher taught Shakespeare alongside the Tudors and the children wrote and performed their own scenes in costume and prepared a Tudor menu and recipes before producing a Tudor banquet for their parents to enjoy after the performance. They visited a local country park with the science teacher and English teacher and combined their experiences for work in both subjects.

I think by having specialist subject knowledge and a cross curricula, hands on approach it is easy to provide the best of both worlds

That's fine if you do it in a cross-curricular way, mrz. (I know we couldn't afford specialist teachers of any shape or form, anyway!)Actually that example of the Tudors sounds just like we'd do anyway but without the specialist!

Would private school parents expect discrete subject teaching (ie. when you do the Romans, you just learn about Pompeii, centurians, etc - historical aspects only) or something like mrz describes? Are there specialist teachers for everything - like secondary school?

Just interested! There's got to be some major difference.

Well we were voted Spanish school of the Year out of the whole of the UK.

Does that class as "je ne sais quoi"

Brag Brag

Yes our school teaches subjects cross-curricular as well. I think this works very well and children really get an undrestanding of the subjects being taught.

I dont know if or which teachers have specialist knowledge but many are head of department, for PE, literacy, numeracy, spanish, ICT, history etc... So I take it that they have specialist knowledge in those subjects.

I think a muti-sensory approach would work best no matter what school your in, because Of the age of children we are discussing.

Araminacane the smell goes when the blazer dries

teamcullen I was only kidding . Your school sounds fantastic brag away.

teamcullen - "It has already been discussed that many state schools offer, music, arts, languages and a wide varity of sports."

Of course you are right that some state schools offer a wide variety of extracurricular activities. What is different is the level and degree to which those extracurricular activities are offered.

I've given the example of choir already, but take chess for instance. DS's school chess club meets for two lunchtimes a week, plus once after school. They also have between 12 and 15 matches a year. They work really hard at their game. Our local state primary does have a chess club that meets once a week and has no matches at all.

On the academic side, there are difference between academic and not-particularly-academic schools. But at the academic schools, they expect to get all the children to SATS level 5 (with some getting to 6) by the end of primary school. They just do more and go further.

There's a body of evidence to demonstrate that in mixed ability classes, teachers teach to just below the average. Most state primary schools only teach in sets for numeracy and literacy. So all the other subjects are mixed ability and taught accordingly. If you have a primary school which is only composed of children with IQs over 115-120 you can go so much further with them.

As a matter of interest, qc, how would your children at their very academic school, learn history or geography?

Quattrocento and our (state primary school) chess team take part in national competitions...

The important thing is what the OP's primary school is like...

"They just do more and go further" - how do you know. Three children in my dds year four class are working on KS3 maths questions in top set. I would imagine this is beyond level 5.

I guess you are not considering getting a tutor, Araminta, unlike the OP.

Wheels, I asked around about it as well. From the responses I got I gather it is not very good for struggling child who needs to catch up, but is good for those who want to get some practise, get ahead, and make haomework and testing a routine part of the day (rather than a really stressful event). It has been really good for DD. And hopefully DS will benefit as well. It costs £50 per month for one subject and £90 for two., which is a lot cheaper than privat tutoring.

Where do you live, wheels?

Araminta - KS3 standard is L5 (average for a 14 year old. I think you would find children working at that lvel in a lot of primary schools.

Please justify the comment 'they do more and go further'. It really sounds like hearsay!

vinblanc I would consider a tutor for one to one if i felt they needed a boost I think it can be very helpful. I didn't say my child was one of those three working at that level. They have a very wide ability range and the teacher caters to them all. Those same children visit the university for G and T courses.

G&T is often the top 10-15% of the class. It is not an absolute thing. All schools should identify their top students in order to stretch and challenge them. You can't read a lot into their inate ability though. It depends on their individual cohort.

"Please justify the comment 'they do more and go further'. It really sounds like hearsay!"

What do you want in terms of empirical evidence? I can give you the pass rate at GCSE level - which is 100%, over 75% are at A/A. I think the average state school achieves around 50% pass rate and they don't even properly collate the A/A numbers.

'If you have a primary school which is only composed of children with IQs over 115-120 you can go so much further with them.'

... and you're bound going to get 100% A-C GCSE as they do at my son's (state) grammar school!

Quattrocento individual schools do collate A & A* grades however the government don't publish them.

As far as I can see we are not disagreeing, are we? The state sector only offers that sort of environment at secondary level in some areas - there are very few grammar schools left. So I think you agree with the academic benefits at least.

School league tables 2009: Grammars top A-level ranking (presumably where the children with IQs of over 115 would transfer to after primary)

Grammar schools are outstripping the private sector by a record margin, according to the 2009 school league tables.
Each pupil gained 73 points more than their privately-educated peers - equivalent to a third of an A grade.

No, because the brightest children (working at the same level) do just as well at comps and sec moderns - it's just that their high grades are hidden by the statistics. I don't think selective schools (or parents of pupils) have any right to crow about fantastic results, when the children are all expected to perform to this standard. It's not a case of brilliant teaching (far from it), it's a case of working with more able children.

I would like my children to go to mrz's primary school - it sounds very nice indeed .

Don't believe that though, mrz. Many independent schools score zero in the league tables because they put their students in for the more rigorous IGCSEs.

For A-levels, there are rather a lot of applied subjects and 'studies' in the state sector.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. You need to look beyond the headlines.

............ or maybe teamcullen's school - I quite fancy the Spanish lessons.