can state primary education plus tutoring = equivalent of private?

[wheelsonthebus]

we planned to privately educate dc, but dh lost his job and now dc is going to a state primary - downgraded from good to satisfactory by ofsted . if we have dc tutored from yr 1 say, can we get up to standard of a private school(with a view to moving dc if our finances improve - possibly at 7, but definitely at 11). Can an hour a week really achieve anything? Anyone done this from early on? Interested in any views. I now work f/t so doing lots of stuff with dc after school myself is not really an option (except at weekends). I'd be interested to know when tutoring shd really start. My friend said her primary school gets great league table results but that's because most parents pay tutors. Also; what do most people get tutors for - maths or English or both?

vinblanc - "you know nothing, greensleeves" how very dare you. Just watch her slay your argument in one mightly blow - go on greeny.
Greeny I have a spare eclair if you want it

I am always completely baffled by people who say "I send my children to private school for the extra curricular activities" as if somehow state schools are failing because they don't provide polo lessons.

If your child goes to a state school they can still have polo lessons - but you have to pay for them. Just as you do if your child goes to private school. It's not as if the basic education at a private school costs 12 grand a year and they throw in the mountaineering and cello lessons for free!

OP - just remember that 93% of the population use state education - and most people don't use tutors.

that is depressingly typical AC

Children in private boarding schools (and I have experience of quite a few of them) are simply not supervised properly when thye are not being taught. There is plenty of opportunity for bullying and staff do not have the same attitude/training/coherent strategioes as are standard and required in state schools.

The same applies to smoking/drinking/drug abuse/underage sex - many private schools, including the high-profile ones, have horrendous problems with these things. Poorly supervised kids in an unhealthy environment with too much money = disaster.

Parents delude themselves that private schools are utopian because they choose to do so. It suits their agenda. They want to be a private school family and have naice children who speak naicely and have a well-polished social exoskeleton. What the children go through to produce this result is a means to an end - not worth it for me and my children.

The smoking/drinking/drugs/sex doesn't usually result in unfortunate pregnancies and life on an estate.

I would dearly love to protect my children from our broken society and will hold my hand up to being a fully signed up member to the Envy party.

I wish others could be as honest.

no, you're quite right, unwanted pregnancies at private boarding schools usually result in abortions, not babies and [shock horror] people living On Estates

the only way to protect your children from our 'broken society' is to bury them six feet under

Grow up and stop being such a paranoid snob. I hope your children grow up with a more balanced and realistic view of their society and the rest of their species than yours.

Greeny - you're talking tosh - amusing tosh - but tosh nonetheless

"and because orivate schools are businesses, not educational facilities" WRONG the VAST majority of independent schools are not-for-profit organisations

"there is a tendency to prioritise children's achievements and aptitudes towards vote-winning photo-opportunity crap like playing for county cricket teams and building toilets in Venezuela during the school hols"

You forget the fact that private schools account for nearly 50% of the intake at Russell Group Universities despite only 7% of children being educated there.

Private education pays - it pays in terms of sporting, musical and academic success. It isn't particularly palatable as a fact.

Mrz, I found the stats in this article in the guardian - just noted it's 2006, so relates to AThens 2004 Olympics I should think. Around 50% for 2008 doesn't seem inconsistent to me. Perhaps the improvement is down to raised state sports provision - from improvements/initiatives noted in this thread it does seem likely there will be some effect filtering though there, though I suspect we won't see it for a few more years yet) but it could equally just be a statistical swing given the small numbers of olympic medalists this country produces (at least it's a swing in the right direction though). Either 50 or 60% is still rather shocking, & even though medallists are a tiny proportion of population there's also a horrendous class bias throughout elite sport which this just serves to illustrate.

Have got a bit fed up with this thread now, so cheerio.

I agree Greeny there is a better class of drugs at private schools, they can afford them.

Vinblanc it is very sad that you envy that lifestyle. Also, I would imagine that there are some fab people living on estates that might find your comments rather offensive. It is possible to be very happy and a decent person and have a low income.

lol at "not-for-profit" - it may be so in the brochures, but there are many many ways of making a killing out of working for private schools rather than the state sector

ethically private schools have to survive by "selling" themselves to parents - hence all the glamorous attractive sporting paraphernalia that usually masks inadequate teaching and patchy curriculum coverage

And no, I certainly haven't forgotten the Russell Group intake data - I interpret it slightly differently however

much of the perceived distinction between Russell Group and other universities is social rather than academic and proceeds out of the same unenlightened assumptions that prompts parents to pay for schooling

and the unofficial admission criteria for many of those institutions is a constant source of debate - I'm sure it can't have escaped you that there are many who feel that academic qualities are sometimes not given the priority they deserve by certain universities in selecting undergraduates

and of course private education can signify as well as cause - pupils with affluent pushy climbing parents are more likely to see material success and social status as important, and will sometimes choose a university "because it's The Best" rather than because it offers a course and teaching programme which suits them

Oxford is cluttered with suicidally stressed second-year law students who didn't realise when they were funnelled from private school to Oxford that they actually had a choice

The "almost 50%" quote I found was for Beijing 2008 in "this is London" but wasn't backed up by supporting data.

Okay, you might argue that academic/musical/sporting success is not important to you, which is what I glean from your last post.

But you can't deny that if any of those types of success were to be important to you (as they would be to a prospective employer, for instance) then you would be much more likely to achieve them at an independent school.

No, I don't accept that at all

It's more than possible to excel in those areas if there is genuine talent while attending a state school and taking part in out-of-school activities

many people do

however you are more likely to find thye kind of parents and children who value ANY form of success over a decent well-rounded education at an independent school, hence your statistical point

incidentally, the sports/art/music/drama provision at my children's bog-standard state school is excellent

there is a problem with anti-state school propaganda around non-academic provisions which tends to be taken at face calue unfortunately.

Emotional intelligence is valued in state and private schools equally - discuss.

music and art (not so much sort ) are of immense importance to me as it happens

but my children don't need to be sent to a class-bound microsociety to develop their abilities - good state education and interested, committed parents seem to be working out OK so far

I think emotional intelligence has only recently been valued in state schools (probably in the last 5 years) I can't comment on independent schools.

I'm off to appease dh who is looking forlorn and lonely

back later

Don't go!

Us underclass need you!

I have to agree with Green. My dcs attend a school that is not without its challenges (65% speak English as a second language, 85% from minority ethnic groups etc....) but my god do they work hard for the kids. I was moved to tears by an amazing production recently many of the parts played by somalian children who were only in the country a short time. And don't get me started on the Nursery production at Christmas. It was amazing!!! And academically they support the more able kids too. I simply don't know how they do it.

My DD was going to a very expensive private nursery and when I changed her to the state nursery she excelled in ways that surprised me.

Oh dear. It was bound to happen. A specific question related to private schooling degenerates into the usual wildly biased mudslinging.

OK, again from a confused foreigner. One of the main reason I was/am considering private second school is because of the wider range of subjects avaible at private schools. Subjects that dc wouldn't want to do outside school hours. Like languages, state school offers French and German, private schools same and in addition Chinese, Japanese etc. As someone who did A-levels French I just don't think learning French is that useful (when in France I try to speak English....) and have been told that in the business world other languages are more important (I'm not in business at all, so just what I have heard from friends who are)
All the sporty stuff/music they will do anyway anywhere (and NO change for them to win any medals anyway ha-ha).

thirdname you need to look around both types of schools really and then decide where your child will be happiest. There are good and bad in both state and independent systems.

Some state schools will offer a variety of languages some as you say will only offer the basic two. I know a state school that offers Spanish, Mandarin, Japanese and Russian in addition to French and German but another school in the same town only offers Spanish and German...

Good Luck in your search

hm, there is (without moving house) only 1 state school available for us.
I think it is very difficult to judge a school from 1 or 2 visits. I choose a nursery for ds which I liked best, but ds didn't like it at all. Initially I thought he just didn't like being away from home, till I finally sent him to another nursery. He was a completely different boy.

As my mother used to say, it's sometimes more difficult if you do have a choice..

I think it's difficult when you are told you have a choice but the reality is that choice is worth very little.
I was lucky in my choice because my children played instruments and the school I picked has an excellent youth orchestra and big band so they were accepted even though they weren't our nearest school but sometimes parents are faced with a choice of one ...

Grimma. That is how conversations go. If we were all sitting around a table having a discussion about tuturing and state education it would almost certainly evolve into a discussion about the merrits of state and private ed.

LOL at Greensleeves .

If you think people are paying thousands for bugger all then just let them get on with it - it isn't hurting you! I think people who pay for designer underwear are nuts but so what?

If you are pissed off at posters who think all private education is fantastic and all state education is crap then I agree with you - they seriously annoy me too.