Primary school teachers - help please?

[seeker]

If a child was a level 3 at KS2 SATS, what would you consider broadly acceptable progress by the end of year 3?

OK, I was wrong about the Level 3 content. But at our recent Ofsted the school was interrogated in detail on its relatively low number of L3s in writing at KS1; the reason for the relatively low number is that the teacher assessment is so rigorous. The inspectors were very satisfied with what they saw and gave the school Outstanding overall, with particular praise for assessment and tracking.

But it is true that the optional testing is different in KS2; it's timed and if schools are reporting the results of optional tests, that can also be different from a teacher's day-to-day assessment.

so borderline as in 3c

That's true, which is why I asked seeker if the results were teacher assessment, and they were.

Level 3c is not borderline level 3, mrz. As long as it is a solid 3c assessment, taken from many pieces of 3c work, not just scraped. A proper 3c is actually a long way from 2a.

A secure level 3 is a 3b

I agree. But I wouldn't call a properly assessed 3c borderline. Borderline would be iffy - some evidence of level 3 stuff in, say, 2a work.

Suspect I am just arguing about semantics, now. Sorry, am in the middle of preparing 30 KS2 English re-marks to go back for review, so am extra arsey this week.

Surely a secure level 3 is a 3c. Otherwise it would be a 2a?

Sorry but children are not expected to make two sublevels every year.

There is often angst for parents when their DCs get their end of year 3 levels.

1. There is a considerable difference between a year 2 level 3 and a year 3 level 3 as far as the totally flawed QCA tests are concerned. SOmetimes it might look like children have made no progress.

2. There are no sublevels reported on the year 2 tests so a level 3 may well be just a 3c.

3. The expected improvement for the whole of KS 2 is two whole levels (or six sub levels) and this does not equate to two sub levels every year. This means that on average children who were 2b in year 2 would achieve 4b in year 6.

Target tracker expects on average (and this is where it's ridiculous as some children plateau for a while then shoot off again)

year 3- 1 sub level
year 4- 2 sublevels
year 5- 2 sublevels
year 6 - 1 sublevel.
total 6 sublevels= 2 whole levels

If children were to make 2 sublevels every year they would be expected to make 8 sublevels over KS 2 (So nearly 3 whole levels.)

Another question. Is there a "cap" on what they can achieve in each year? I know that the actual SATS at year 2 and 6 have a 'cap' of 3 and 5 respectively. Is this the same for the optional tests in other years?

There is a cap in the sense that the QCA test mark schemes only give a blanket level over a certain score, e.g. with the Y3 test scores marks are split into Level 2 sub-levels and Level 3 sub-levels. Anything below is just a 1, anything above a 4.

I think the whole Y2 / Y3 assessment process is a minefield that will hopefully improve as we progress further with APP. Our Y2s often come up from the infants with Level 3s and whilst they are obviously working at Level 3 in some areas and probably a 3c, we have to count them as a 3b for our LEA.

For children who move to the juniors for KS2 it's a huge transition - massive changes in work etc. For a lot of children to have made any progress on from their KS1 results is a big step.

Whoever mentioned the "sausage factory" idea I so agree - progress is not standard because children don't come as standard. And the sooner that people high up in education except that the better.

I think that getting a 3a at the end of year 3 is what would be expected if a child scored level 3 in the KS1 assessments. A child with this score would be expected to score a level 5 in year 6.

Next question.

Can anyone think of a tactful way of saying "Look, your child's got a 3a. that's very good, and they are still on target for a 5 in year 6 - what more do you want? Why does it matter that little Ermintrude got 4c?. Go away, you silly person."

think you said it quite tactfully if you remove the "go away you silly person" and replace with - "I understand your concerns but"... and "what does it matter that little ermintrude got 4c" with "all children are unique and develop at different rates - we would be failing your child to be ignoring this"!!
completely agree wth everything said about plateauing. also the expectations are different - if you are comparing SATs papers the subject matter of the reading paper is much more difficult than at KS1. Also some Year Groups fly - the stage from not reading to reading is amazing and kids when they are ready can suddenly whizz through, but then need time to consolidate and apply.

Just a thought about being a governor and being muttered to by parents.

If parents have a concern about their child, they need to first talk to the class teacher, and then to the head teacher and finally to make a written complaint if they are still unhappy. It's NOT your job to take individual concerns to the Governing Body. You are (probably) a parent governor - you're not there to represent parents but to be representative parent IYSWIM.

Governing bodies need to be working at a strategic level - so, for example, asking the head teacher how he/she proposes raising the attainment of ALL children at the school from the brightest to the....less bright !

I've had to fend parents off in the playground and explain that being a governor is not about reporting back the whinges - they can do that themselves. Make sure your school has a complaints policy and direct parents to that !

I would be quite happy with 3as at the end of Year 3. But I know several apparently intelligent people who are still under the misapprehension that they are expected to go up a level each year. So would probably be worried if their child was "still" on 3, having been on 3 in yr2.

It would help greatly if someone had thought out the numbering scheme so that it didn't appear to slow down in KS2. It feels like you charge through L1 and L2 quite fast and then suddenly things grind to a halt!