DDS Year 3 levels

[babyhouse]

Hi,I am new to all this! Just found out my DS QCA results for end of YR3 and am a little concerned so looking for advice really.. He finished Yr 2 on 2A for both Reading & Numeracy but this yr's test results are 3C numeracy and 2A reading. Really concerned about the reading as has shown no improvement, not so worried about numeracy as has at least gone up one level! I am confused as he is in top groups for everything. Teacher says he is keeping up with the work so has no need to drop him down and I know(from seeing him do his homework & looking through his school books) that he is finding numeracy a breeze. He is reading Harry Potter at the moment as his school book & reads all sorts of things at home so am struggling to understand how his reading comprehension was so low? Think what I am most concerned about is that in YR 4 they will use the YR3 results to group and he will drop down, any advice/experience of this would be greatly appreciated!

Are you sure that they will use these results for Yr4 groups? Our school always reassesses them at start of each yr: I think this good practice.

I believe that tests for yr2 & yr3 are different; what I mean is that how they assess the levels may be different, which leads to fuzziness in their consistency from yr to yr. You aren't the first MNetter with this query.

I'm amazed that ur DS can cope with reading HP -- when dc tested ~2a level they didn't have the stamina for that big a book. DD has been assessed at 3b for reading recently & still wouldn't want to read a book that big; DS1 is nearing end of yr4 and might just about manage.

There is a lot of difference between a 3 at KS1 & at KS2 - the 'plateau' effect between year 2 & 3 is well known & your DS won't be the only one who has apparently not made progress. Children are expected to average 2 sub-levels progress per year over the KS2 years, but it's really common for this to mean 1 sub level in year 3 & 3 in year 4, or even 2.5 in each of Year 4 & 5. The year 3 teachers will be talking to the Year 4 teachers at a 'handover' meeting, so his new teacher will be well aware of his current teacher's opinion.

One of my dd's friends, aged 10.5 is a prolific reader, her parents cannot comprehendhow she is still a 2a, but it's because her comprehension is poor, she doesn't quite "get" the story, but gets enough to keep reading the book avidly, and also because she skips words & also substitutes them with others.
I am her class reading helper so I see her issue. She has an official reading age of 8.6 as when she does the tests she mixes words, ie says the when its and and so on.

Thanks Iljkk, dont think DS's school reassess at beginning of each yr, know that Yr 3 teacher used ks1 sats results for groups this yr. Think your school has right idea.
He has read loads of Horrid Henry and that kind of thing but just started the Harry Potter, we will see how he gets on!

Thanks RustyBear, have read about the plateau effect but think he is one of very few in his class. His teacher has said if she is with him in last term she will be passing on her opinion. Think my concern is that in the top group, although he may not be as bright as the others, he is being pushed, and boy does my DS need pushing!!

Thanks QOD, think that is a point well made and maybe true of DS, although his teacher said that when she does 'group' reading he answers all the questions perfectly. I am coming to the realisation that maybe he just needs reading comprehension practise and have found out that they havent had any in class. Maybe he needs practise at 'reading & understanding' the questions.

Hi

I just wondered what tests the school uses for comprehension....my dd yr2 is on the ren learn accelerated reading programme....which tests comprehension....the children read a book and then answer a computer based test on that book ... and move on accordingly...it's a super scheme which allows the kids to pick their own books which include horrid henry and also classic's ...they get to read at their own pace and move on when they show that they clearly understand what they are reading.

I think it would be worth finding out where this 2a in reading has come from. Ideally, it will be a solid teacher assessment, backed up by tons of evidence drawn from throughout the year and supported by one test (perhaps the optional y3 SAT), as is the case now with y2 end of year teacher assessment.

Y2 SAT results are a small part of the teacher assessment in y2, and would probably not be passed up to the y3 teacher.

The plateau effect used to exist because the y2 SAT mark was the only result that stood, then the y3 optional SAT mark would be used to give a level in Y3 - Y3 tests are timed and Y2 tests aren't, so of course lots of children appeared to get the same result two years running. Now schools have to use their own assessment policies which should be the same throughout the school - a 2a in Y2 should be exactly the same as a 2a in Y3.

Good teacher assessment is now statutory in Y2, and most schools have caught up with this kind of procedure in assessing other years. Some schools assess using only one test result, and this is poor assessment.

I suspect that the 2a comes from the Y3 optional SAT - as I said, this is timed, so the result when built onto y2 results could be the same. However, this should be backed up by the teacher's own assessment, her view of how he is progressing. And if it isn't, and he hasn't made any progress - why not? Either situation is worrying and warrants an explanation!

Thanks Lottysmum, That sounds a great learning system. From what I have been told DS's class have not had any reading comprehension during the year, just this single SATS/QCA test. Will certainly look into the programme, can I get it to use from home?

Thanks Feenie, your post was very interesting but also worrying as you seem to agree that something is wrong...
I believe the 2a from Yr 2 was backed up by teacher assessment which seemed right and fair. Not this year, I have been told that the 2a is purely from the test, she(the supply teacher) said that when she does guided/shared reading with DS he is fine and answers questions perfectly so must understand what he is reading? She said the test may have been a difficult one and he may have found the wording of the questions difficult to understand. She said she can find no evidence that they have had practise during the year which I think is wrong, he should be taught how to pick out text and answer questions - shouldnt he?
You have hit the nail on the head with what u say about the progression, I am asking what they are doing about it!

The 2a in Y2 has to be backed up by teacher assessment.

Yes, reading comprehension should be taught both through guided reading and through each Literacy unit during its first week.

An isolated test with nothing to back it up means nothing. From what the teacher says, he would seem to be having no problems with the work in class - so either her teacher assessment will be higher, or the work should be better matched to his abilities to ensure progression!

Feenie, I feel much more confident about going back and speaking to the teacher after the great responses I have recieved. Will make sure he gets the support he needs to improve in this area. Thanks x

Glad to help - let us know what happens!

Will do Feenie, only joined MN yesterday & feel better about the whole thing already!!

The headteacher at our school told me that it has been well-documented since research in the early 1970s that children do plateau in real terms (not just SATS currency )around 7 or 8 yrs old and then take off again at about 9/10.Don't know if this is true but thought it worth mentioning

Thanks katiestar, I am a TA and had heard that, just concerned that it is only him in his class!

katiestar I would love to be there when he explains to Ofsted why his Y3 aren't progressing - it won't wash really, will it!

Update!!!
Had long chat with school SENCO and she was very supportive, said she would do 'diagnostic' tests in all areas of reading, verbal and written comprehension to ascertain whether the 2A is correct or whether it was just a bad day for DS.
Another point she raised, which I thought was a good one,was that she would have a look at his yr 2 paper to see what kind of 2a he got then, if it was a scrape(say 2a is 20-30 points and he got 21) and this yr was a good one(say 29) then there would have been improvement.
All in all I feel that the situation will be resolved, either it will show that he is a 2a and needs some extra help to improve, or that it was a bad day and he actually is a higher level. Either way I will be happy.

Can't have been a scrape, babyhouse - I don't wish to worry you further, but don't let her fob you off.

A 2a should not have been awarded if he just 'squeaked' it. It would have had to have been backed up by plenty of teacher assessment to prove he was a solid 2a, they can't scrape it any more - unless the school is assessing wrongly.

What is good, however, is their promise that they will investigate further - at least your ds's issue has been highlighted early enough, and they will be at pains to ensure he makes progress from now on.

Thanks Feenie, I see what you mean, will say that if I get that result!

She was quick to say she was surprised and that it could have been a bad day so this shows it is just the test result, not teacher assessment. Difficulty I think with that will be that DS's teacher been off since Feb so depends what records she kept. Supply teacher indicated she was not concerned at all during guided reading sessions which she does weekly...so we will see.
Just want to make sure he can catch up.
Thanks again

No probs