Why was my Y1 ds doing "science tests" today in the staff room, without me knowing anything about it?

[Greensneeze]

My ds1 (6) has just told me he did "science tests" today, on his own, in the staff study - he was given 45 minutes. He says he was given just a pencil, and was alone but the teacher popped in and out a few times.

The questions were things like "How does the heart work" and identifying rocks from a list of characteristics, ie chalk "smooth, pale, can be scratched with a coin" etc

Should I be bristling at the fact that they are testing him when a) he's not meant to be doing any 'official' tests until Y2 SATS (and I don't approve of those!) and b) nobody said anything to me!

at teachers having to consult parents before making a professional decision about assessing a child in their class.

{shock] at teachers thinking they can perform completely inappropriate and unnecessary formal tests on a child with SN without informing the parents

I agree with others that the teacher was probably trying to find out his ability areas.

She didn't handle the explanation to your ds well, in your opinion (although I'm not sure I would have minded it as an explanation).

I also think you need to stop thinking of it as your ds sitting a SATS paper. It may well have been the SATS paper that he took, but it was not taken for league table purposes. It was jsut a set of questions used to determine what level your ds is working at (and since there are presumably marking guides, one where it is clear to see what level he is working at). Assuming his teacher knows him well, and you say she has been brilliant otherwise, then I also don't think it matters that it was a yr6 paper, not a yr2 one. it was one that she thought he would cope with (and form what he has told you, he did cope with it very well)

I think you need to disentangle your feeligns about SATS form this - your ds is not being used as part of that, and presumably his paper willnot count "officially" - and look at it more from the internal school perspective.

I do agree with others who think that the school cannot ask you about every thing they do - would you have expected to be asked if he was jsut working (at his level) alone with a TA?

at a teacher being shocked that a parent might want to be consulted about an unusual assessment of their child.
The parent might have some valuable input into the situation that the teacher could consider when making the professional decision.

What a strange reaction to have to this Greeny.

The teacher would not have done this if she thought it would upset Ds at all. The children are constantly assessed during school and OK, it was out of the norm to do a test in the staffroom, he is obviously not phased by it.

You should be very proud.

DS1 is doing Y2 SATS now and has no idea what is going on! He does 'special writing' and loves having the desks moved so they cant see the others work!

at the idea that a year 6 SATs paper will give a good indication of how good a child is at Science.

ok. no, you shouldn't be feeling that way. academic decisions should be left to the academic staff. (imo)

but that said, i'm only saying that because i honestly wouldn't give a monkeys lol.

none of us can tell you how you should be feeling, but you have to work out why you are feeling that way and deal with it.

i honestly think if you approach the teacher and question her professional judgement because you don't like tests it might come out the wrong way...

fwiw i have one statemented who is also very able lol, and one who has been twice assessed by externals in the same manner. (with no-one asking my permission )

in the words of catherine tate, am i bovvered? no, but obviously you are. parents are as different as the kids they spawn lol, and teachers have enough to do second-guessing the class without having to worry about whether mrs x will like their assessment techniques. you trust her judgement, and she takes your advice on how to handle his sn, so why are you not extending her the same courtesy in matters where she is the expert?

do speak to her, but honestly, take a deep breath first and just explain you don't like assessments.

on a slightly different note, how are you expecting them to differentiate his work appropriately if they are not allowed to work out what level he is currently at? or is this not a priority for you? (that's a serious question btw - it would presumably be very time-consuming for them to do it any other way? i assume he doesn't have 1-1 as obviously this would have resolved the supervision issue)

no adversarial tone intended - genuinely interested.

that should have been

I'm not going to kick off and be abusive to the teacher (have actually never done that, to anyone) but I will be wanting a word. DH will too.

I'm upset more than anything else because

a) I consider this to be a breach of what was a very sensible and successful working relationship between me and his teacher, and

b) the effect on ds1 of being told he is "the best at science" and of being made to sit a test that must have been at the top end of his ability, on his own, in a formal setting, is not worth whatever they thnk they are gaining by it.

There are other ways to assess a child's ability - in fact the teacher already HAS a very good understanding of him IMO. Which is why I'm a bit stumped that this has occurred.

This is not just assessing a child though. Normal day to day assessments, and teacher judgements are fine and appropriate. It is something totally out of the norm - to give a very young child a formal assessment aimed at children who are 5 years old than him. Those tests are not designed for 6 year olds, they are designed for 10/11 year olds.

I still do not believe a 45 minute test, left on their own wih no supervision for most of the time, is an appropriate way to assess a Y1 child's progress and capability. Therefore, as it is so dfferent to the norm, it should IMo have been discussed with te parents beforehand.

I talk as a parent, an ex teacher and a Y1 TA. My feelings remain the same in all 3 roles.

Children are assessed by teachers in different subjects all the time. They need to know the level to set appropriate work.

Lots of sense talked by Hulababy imo.

Schooling IMO should eb a two way thing between school and parents.

I'm a teacher. In fact, I'm a Science teacher. And I'm not sure why this would be thought a good assessment.

I am not sure what the real problem is here.

Is your ds upset?

Was he pleased that he is the 'best at science'?

Is it because he has SN?

I wouldn't have a problem with this unless it upset my child for some reason.
Was he upset about it?

Piscesmum - IMO, in all three roles I have/do play, I still do not believe this form of assessment is appropriate at this stage. I would not be happy with a 6y left on their own for the best part of 45 minutes doing a formal test.

I don't expect them to consult me every time they make a decision! I am a very low-maintenance parent, considering ds1 has SN. I turn up to meetings etc and support school events/am a governor, but I also work and don't have the time or the inclination to be up the teacher's arse about trivial things all the time. His TA is great too and it's never occurred to me to wonder whether he reads alone with her or whatever. They didn't consult me about letting him use the senior library, and I wasn't bothered at all.

But this is NOT the normal run of things in school - this is IMO a pretty big thing to do with a 6yo with AS and they bloody well should have consulted me first.

I also didn't say in my earlier posts that it hadn't fazed him. He isn't upset, but he was very sqeaky/flappy/twisty/on edge all the way home and kept going on about the test, asking me if I thought his answers were right and going on about the one question he couldn't do.

Is it reall so odd that I am annoyed by this?

Totally agree with Hulababy.

I think the reason for the upset is partly due to a feeling of betrayal of trust. Up until this Greensneeze believed that her and the teacher had a good relationship. Now she's doubting that.
I think you need to go in calmly and find out what's happened/happening.
Hopefully your faith will be restored.

would you have given your consent if they had asked you?

OK, a formal test in theory in that it was a SATS paper but not a test to upset ds! The teacher put him there for peace and quiet and for him to be able to concentrate.

He probably thought it was exciting!

I am a TA in school working with a boy with autism and I would be thrilled for him if he was given a tricky Maths paper/Science paper that he could complete.

Could it not just be that they were letting him see if he could complete it out of interest?

We do spelling tests at school and call them quizzes/quiz's??(sp) The children have no idea they are being tested.

I do think it is odd that you are SO upset by it.

I would only be upset if ds was upset about being in the staffroom on his own.

juule nd Hulababy you are saying what I mean better than I am saying it

If I'm honest, no I woudn't have given my consent for this to be done in this way. I would have suggested they adapt the format of the test to make it more appropriate for him age - verbal answers in conversation with a teacher/TA around the topics in the paper, for example. I hate to think of him sitting in there trying to answer these questions on a time limit. He wouldn't have had any trouble knowing the answers to most of them - he's obsessed with science, among other things, so he "knows" a lot - but I bet it was tortuous and intimidating for him having to try and make his handwriting and sentence structure reflect what he was trying to say. He's never sat a formal test before and shouldn't have sat this one IMO.

I'm also not keen to encourage the perfectionist and anxious side of his nature too much.

I am expressing myself quite poorly, but yes it appears I am quite upset about this

yes in the way you've explained how he'd be feeling I too would be annoyed that you hadn't been informed.

Greensneeze - I think you need to go and have a chat with the teacher. Just explain that your DS was somewhat perturbed by test - you know him best, you know what his behaviour as like and what that means for him. I wouls also make it known that you are not particularly happy about him doing the test aimed at much older children, and in such a setting, without being consulted beforehand - so you could have prepared your DS for such an activity (being on his own, working on a test) and also watched out for any concerning behaviour afterwards in order to support, or so you could have declined him even doing it at all if that is what you felt best.