Annoyed with ds school - reception class with 35 pupils in!!

[Pitchounette]

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Nope, you're right, Littlefish - as you say, this became statutory in September 2008. However, it states that a qualified teacher with QTS must be present at all times, and some unscrupulous heads are using HLTAs to teach while the teacher does her PPA in the same room - completely unprofessional, imo.

Thanks for confirming that Feenie.

Pitchounette - the requirements of the EYFS could be the way to query the current practice with the Headteacher. Reception children should not be being taught or covered by a TA and definitely not in another classroom.

Nursery & reception class doesn't have to be taught by a teacher for PPA or short term absence. It appeared so in the first document but this was changed when the document was revised.

"The EYFS requires that the teacher must be present at all times except during non-contact time, breaks and short term absence.

Examples of teachers' non-contact time include planning, preparation and assessment (PPA) time or because he or she is a Newly Qualified Teacher on a reduced timetable. For the purposes of the EYFS, examples of short-term absence include times when the teacher must leave the children briefly e.g. to take an urgent telephone call or to speak to a parent, or special occasions such as the children's Christmas party when the teacher's particular skills and expertise are not necessarily required. Headteachers should exercise their professional judgement in determining where cover from another teacher is required."

You'll find the information about reception PPA www.teachernet.gov.uk/teachingandlearning/EYFS/clarificationsandfaqs/

I wasn't aware of this clarification, mrz - however, the link you've given only refers to nursery classes, not Reception classes?

The third and fourth points refer to reception classes

All schools and LAs were sent the following information prior to the revised document being published

"The early years foundation stage (EYFS)

Some local authorities involved in the higher level teaching assistant (HLTA) programme have raised concerns regarding the EYFS proposals on staff to pupil ratios. Who those staff should be, particularly in terms of staffing planning, preparation and assessment (PPA) time (when HLTAs might be used), is an issue.

We have received the following clarification from the Department for Children, Schools and Families (DCSF) about this issue.

?The early years foundation stage (EYFS) requires that, in nursery classes in maintained schools and maintained nursery schools:

• there is at least one member of staff for every 13 children
• at least one member of staff is a teacher, and
• at least one other member of staff is qualified to level 3.

The DCSF is aware that it is necessary to provide further clarification on what should happen at times when the teacher is out of the classroom. Some people have been concerned that the EYFS will require a teacher to be present at all times, meaning that HLTAs and other support staff will not be able to lead the class during PPA time as they currently do. However, this is not the intention. Nor is it the intention to change the way in which schools currently manage PPA time or to supersede the Section 133 regulations and guidance. The DCSF can understand why the current drafting of the EYFS has given rise to these concerns and are currently considering the revisions that will need to be made?.

We hope this clarifies the issue for those concerned."

Sorry I missed this bit which refers directly to reception

"While reception classes are also part of
the EYFS, for staffing purposes they fall
within the infant class size legislation (providing the majority of pupils will reach the age of five or over during the course of the school year)."

But none of it refers directly to Reception, except the last part of your posts, which doesn't talk about PPA, only infant class sizes.

Wherever it does refer directly, it still seems only to talk about nursery classes.

I have yet to be convinced!

My head queried it with the DCFS and was told that points 3 & 4 of the FAQ relate directly to reception and that the rules relating to who can cover an infant class also apply to all EYFS classes. My union also confirmed this.

Interesting, mrz. Which union?

We only use teaching staff to cover PPA time anyway, but have used this EYFS point to argue why this should be the case (with the head). Luckily, the governors agree - good job our head has never sought clarification!

I'm in the ATL and we use qualified teachers to cover PPA too but sometimes a hlta will cover in an emergency until supply can arrive.

just to add, in my school where I teach, all PPA is covered by level 3 TA's, this includes reception. I am not familiar with the rules for nursery classes as we do not have a nursery at my school, so cannot comment on that.
If a teacher calls in sick, for their first day of absence, the TA takes the class for the morning and the class is split for the afternoon. I also know of many other schools where friends of mine teach where this is the case. It saves money for a PPA teacher. It also allows TA's to stay with children if the teacher wants to take children out of the classroom in small groups or individually to do a task.

"However, it states that a qualified teacher with QTS must be present at all times, and some unscrupulous heads are using HLTAs to teach while the teacher does her PPA in the same room"

Actually, not true! Seperate to the PPA aspect of the above quote, my best friend who is also a Canadian trained teacher, came over here in January 2008, and has since been teaching as an "unqualified teacher" in British eyes. She teaches reception currently and in the eyes of Britain is not consdiered a qualified teacher with QTS. This is also the case for all teachers who come from places like Australia, South Africa and Canada and the States...does not apply to those trained in the EU. When we come to teach in England, we can teach for up to four years and are considered (and sadly paid as) unqualified teachers, even though we are qualified in our own respective countries. Within those four years, if you want to remain teaching in Britain, you must obtain QTS, but there are a LOT of international teachers in this country who do NOT have it, and therefore the above quote proves as untrue, as qualified teacher yes, but not one with QTS!

sorry, separate, not seperate!

It's taken from the new EYFS, Melissa - it may not be adhered to in some schools you are aware of, but it is most certainly statutory.

qualified teachers yes, but not the QTS aspect...two very different things when you are referring to international teachers!

Surely overseas trained teachers can only teach in England for 4 years as temporary unqualified teachers while they obtain QTS?

sorry I should have read your full post before replying

mrz...yes, we (I am Canadian trained and had to obtain QTS again over here) can teach here for up to four years, and as of September 2008 this has been a lot more adhered to, prior to this, some Heads were able to get around the 4 year rule by using different ways about it.
An OTT (overseas trained teacher) does not have to obtain QTS within the four years if they do not want to, but you cannot teach in the UK post those 4 years if you do not, and we are also paid significantly less than a teacher with QTS, so many OTT's do it sooner rather than later just because of that one issue.
But up until you obtain QTS as an OTT, you are considered unqualifed in the eyes of Britain, but can still teach in any year group throughout that time period.

an overseas trained teacher can get QTS in 3 months. surely if you are here 3 yrs and working as a teacher, you've had enough time and incentive to get qts before the 4th yr.

similarly, British trained nurses cannot work in the US till they have passed the nursing exam set by the State in which she resides. it is hardly an alien concept.

foxytocin, you can get QTS that quickly if you do nothing else besides that! There is a lot of work involved! You have up to a year to get it from the date of starting the course for it. I personally do not know of anyone that has done it in three months, the shortest I know is 4.5 months, and that person had no life for that entire time as their life was consumed by their portfolio!

I know a lot of OTT's that are coming to the end of their fourth year of teaching in England at the end of this school year and have decided not to do QTS, it is a personal decision, and if you are not planning on settling here and living here long term, then there is no point, as a lot of people feel that why is that they are good enough for four years and then all of a sudden they are expendable.

"British trained nurses cannot work in the US till they have passed the nursing exam set by the State in which she resides. it is hardly an alien concept."
Very true, my Mum had to do the same when she emigrated to Canada from England as a Nurse. Noone said it was an alien concept or that it did not work both ways!

having 'no life' for 6 mo - a yr and possibly doubling your salary over the nxt 1, 2, 3 yrs?

yes, t'is a perSonal decision.

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