Quick question about Yr3 maths and also one about online maths websites.

[StripeyKnickersSpottySocks]

DD is in Yr 3 and currently crying as at school they're meant to be doing subtraction of 100s. She says the questions are like 218 - 156. She can't do it and hasn't got a clue what to do. She's only done 2 out of 10 questions this afternoon and is worried she'll be in trouble tomorrow.

I'm nervous about trying to help her as they seem to do everything different now. They even add up in a totally different way to how I did at school. I got her a Letts book age 7-8 but this book doesn't cover subtraction in 100s, only in 10s. Now I'm sure the principle's the same but it got me wondering if the level is a bit hard for Year 3s. She's in a mixed Yr3/Yr4 class and sometimes I think they teach the whole class Yr4 work. Her friend who is in a Yr3 class says they're not doing this in her class.

Also can anyone recommend an online maths website. A free one would be best but also happy to consider a subscription one if its recommended.

Thanks

Hiya, www.mathszone.co.uk is a great site because it links you to dozens of other sites based on the topic of interest. I use that on my smartboard in my class all the time and find it to be a great site. It will connect you to loads of sites like ictgames etc...

I would say, if your DD is struggling with these questions, have her try to break it down into smaller numbers to make it easier. Say break it into quantities of 50 or bring it to an easier number, like a multiple of 10 or 100. For example, turn it into 200-156=100-56=44 but then have to add the 18 back on again so 44+18=62. Does that make sense? It is just easier if you break it down into smaller steps!
HTH!

Forgot to add, I teach a split year group, and in my situation, we set for maths based on ability, but they tend to cover one set of objectives one year, and another the next, so they end up covering it all in one year, it just may be in a reverse order!

Another way you could get her to do that sum would be 218-100=118, 118-50=68, 68-6=62
She can then check her answer by doing the inverse (62+156=218)

Usually the teacher would show an example of the work so the children know which method to use.

Melissa,

That does make sense thanks. She still struggles with hundreds, tens, units. (is that number bonds?). She struggles going into a different hundred. So 199+2 would throw her and subtracting is even worse.

I did wonder if teaching her to add a subtraction would be easier.

So saying that she needs to get from 156 up to 200. That she would need to add 44. Then to get from 200 to 218 she would need another 18. Then to add 44 to 18. I just don't want to teach her that if its the "wrong way" of doing it. But its how I do subtraction if I'm honest.

Will have a look at that website, thanks.

kid is using the method my yr 3 ds has been shown. Most of the maths they are doing at this age the chunk into, 100's 10's and units.

number bonds is 6+4 =10, 4+6=10 then 60+40=100, 40+60=100 Stripey

Is there not a progression in maths then Melissa?
SKSS My ds (Y3) does do subtraction of hundreds. Don't know how he does it I'm afraid. In his head.

There are various ways of doing this Stripey but if your dd is anything like my ds who really struggles with maths, then subtracting to add later is really confusing. He forgets to add it.

I think that is quite hard for year 3 - I would tell your dd not to worry and have a word with the teacher about it tomorrow.

are they written or mental maths questions?
I use BBC Bitesize keystage2

If she struggles when she gets to crossing the 100 barrier, then maybe she can count back in 10s?
So 118- 5 lots of 10 = 108, 98, 88, 78, 68

Get her counting forwards and backwards in 10s to gain confidence.

Personally, if she was really struggling with it, then I would send a note in with the teacher with some of the work completed so they knew you at least tried it but found it difficult. Maybe the teacher needs to do some more work on this in class?
I have sent my DDs work back in half completed as I don't see what benefit she will get from me practically doing the work for her. So far, her teacher has been completely supportive.

Its written maths.

I'll try doing some sums with her using Kid's method and seeing if that clicks with her. Its only the teacher's 2nd week and I sent a note in last week saying that DD hadn't understood the fraction work and was upset about that. I can't send a note in every week, she'll think I'm bonkers!

Will also get her to practice counting backwards and forwards in 10s. Thanks.

Ok, maybe its best not to send a note in every week

Homework shouldn't be making her upset. How about if she takes it back (preferably not on the day its due in!) and asks the teacher to explain it again or to show her how to do one. Or maybe if there is a TA, they can spend a few minutes going over the method she should be using?

Good luck, I hope she gets the hang of it.

I'm not a teacher like some on here but do they still use the method for bigger sums like this
_ 218
156
___
62

done in columns 8- 6 =2
borrow the 1 to make 11-5=6
give the 1 back 2-2=0

sorry can't explain it well and get the lines in right place!

DS still hasn't done anything in columns and he is in year 3.

They definelty haven't done colummns in DD's class. Even adding is all done in a line. I find it frustrating as I think given her difficulties in grasping the concepts of 100s, 10s, units then doing sums in columns would suit her down to the ground. But there is no room for individual methods in the curriculum I guess.

My dd uses columns for that, and she is in Year 3, so maybe check with the teacher about methods used?

Ah, now I think DS has a better grasp of number values given that he doesn't use columns. I'm in awe of his mental maths, and that of his friends too. I think it has set him up really well. He could do that calculation much quicker than I.

I am looking forward to the columsn though, because then I'll understand what he's doing. And long division. I love long division. When do they do that?

DD had calmed down enough this morning to say her teacher is teaching them to take away by adding up. Something about drawing a line and putting the small number at the left and the big number at the right and then going up in hops.

So have now discovered its actually addition that DD can't do. She can add 8 and 3, but ask her what 208 add 3 is and she goes to bits.

sounds like going up and down a number line maybe to add and subtract.

Hiya Stripey- bumping into you on here too! Before mat leave I taught yr 4. The method of subtraction we focussed at the start of the year was the one you mentioned this morning. It's called an empty number line and it's a way of using addition to subtract. Like you say the smallest number goes on the left hand side of the number line and the largest on the right. You then add on to get to the largest number, or jumps or hops. So for example;

218- 156 =

start with 156 at the left, if you add on 4 that hops you to 160, now add on 40, gets you to 200, add 18 gets you to 218. As the children add on we encouraged them to write the number they had added above the number line and the number they have reached at the bottom. They then add the numbers above the number line (4+40+18=62) which gives them the answer to subtraction.

I've found a link to a video that shows it and might make it clearer,
www.teachertube.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=24324

I think it's quite a good method but like you say it depends on whether the children are confident with addition. Also sometimes some children would get find it difficult to understand why we were adding in a subtraction. We didn't tend to move onto column method until later in Yr 4. It's quite tricky as some children love methods like empty number lines and can't do the column method whereas for others the column method is so much simpler. I always used to tell my class that we teach all the methods so that they can choose the ones they are most confident using in the end.

You could always go and ask the teacher to run through the methods with you. I'd often do this with parents as everything is done so much differently now then when we were at school. Hope this helps. Am going to reply to your other thread now.

that's interesting rachiew thanks~have ds yr2 loves maths but I don't always know which method he's talking about.

"Is there not a progression in maths then Melissa?"

There is progression, it is just a difficult thing when it is split year groups, as obviously all objectives have to be covered. Some teachers set (according to ability) which works if you have a two or three form entry school like mine. Others do it so that they teach one lesson to one year group and another to the other (which can be very demanding after a while) or others I know do it where they cover the objectives from year three for one year and then year four the next for example, just using appropriate numbers to the childs ability level. So although the objective might be a Year three one for a year four child for example, they are still being given appropriate numbers to their age groups. Does that make sense? Sorry if not, it has been a long day in my classroom today!