Can a teacher with a class of 30 kids really differentiate?

[eastereggfeaster]

Trying to decide between a school with 30 kids and 1 teacher plus assistant in the class and a school with 20 kids and 1 teacher plus two assistants.

Lots of other issues but fundamentally I would like to know whether a teacher in a class of 30 can differentiate if a child is ahead or behind of 'average'.

yes. absolutely. ime.

some of that is about parent involvement/interaction.

Yes, it's possible, but not easy. I'd go for smaller classes if you have the choice. Every time.

Yes they can and do. Obviously it is often easier to do when there is a smaller number of children but it is possible with 30 esp if you have a TA.

Yes they can, but I would be very drawn to a school where the class has 20 children and 2 TAs. Is it private?

Yes - but I would always go for smaller classes over larger, if there aren't any other glaring differences.

It really depends on whether you mean
30 kids in a class with 1 teacher and 1 TA but children also leave class to see a SEN co-ordinator
or 20 kids in a class with 2 TA's both of whom are there for 1-2-1 with statemented children
I've seen both

I have 30 in my class (year 2) and if I didn't differentiate, I would be failing in my responsibilities as a teacher. Perhaps you need to be thinking more about how well the teacher knows each child, and how much attention they will get, and in that case a teacher pupil ratio of 1:20 is always better than 1:30. TAs are usually focused on children who need additional support, so unless that applies to your child, he/she may not get the benefit.

Yes they can.

I help one morning a week in a class of 28 and even I could tell you after just a few weeks who is able, who needs more help etc.

Mind you a class with 20 kids and 2 TAs is a much better ratio, I won't deny.

Would more support mean those struggling or could it be those 'ahead' too?

easteregg "more support" could mean either.

I have seen TA for example take out small group of 5-6 for extra phonics work - could be those who can't grasp it or those who are ahead of the larger group.

Very good teachers can do it - but it must be bloody hard. Its the law of diminishing returns innit?
I volunteer in my local primary and the teacher has over 30 and no TA. Tis bedlam.

Have just read something about the school with the larger classes having withdrawal or break-out groups for some pupils so sounds like they are quite good at this.

I am in agreement with lilac, I too am a KS1 teacher with 30 children in my class, and it is my responsibility to ensure that each child is able to access the curriculum regardless of ability, which thus means I have to differentiate to allow them to be challenged without frustration (as much as possible). I come from Canada where our class size for children KS1 and younger is maxed out at 22 children. I personally find 24 to be the ideal number, anything more is like having an extra ten children for just one, both in physical proximity as well as resources. As a direct result of this, I personally would go for the smaller class if possible, however you have not mentioned what the other issues are between the schools, as obviously those circumstances would have to be consdiered as well.

Hi Melissa....other issues mentioned on my thread entitled something like "in a quandry" under primary ed - would value your opinion as a teacher.

I'd say it depends on the school and how they work. Schools we visited varied hugely, and you can have efficient group work using TA's and teachers in either size of class dependent on how the class is run and the ethos of the school. Also there are some advantages to bigger classes, eg a bigger pool of kids to find friends amidst.

Is this a state school? Is it likely a state school would have 2 TAs for 20 children? I'd check it's not two children with 1-2-1 needs and 1 teacher for the other 18 first

Ah. Already been mentioned

No

Not meaningfully, anyway.

I'm an Unschooler, though, I'm pretty biased.

I do get the feeling that ds's teacher (Yr 4) knows him very well and understands his problems. He is not statemented and has not even been definitely diagnosed, but she is very keen to support him in any way she can and to discuss it with us.

Generally, I feel that smaller classes are better, although I've taught classes of 30, and felt that I knew them extremely well, and differentiated all lessons to meet children's needs.

Smaller classes are good but I wouldn't choose a school on that basis alone. A good teacher can differentiate with 30 children, especially with a TA.

they should but it certainly doesn't always happen. good teachers will but there are lots of not very good teachers out there. I am shocked at how terrible some of the IEPs I see are (am inclusion teacher at SEN school and do a lot of work supporting mainstream pupils who are referred to our school) or just leave the job of differentiation to the LSAs or TAs. probably not what you want to hear. I'd never go back to teaching in a mainstream environment with 30 kids to cater for.

all the way through primary i was in a class of 36 with no assistants. one teacher, 36 kids.

and we absolutely got diferentiated teaching. i started in 2nd class unable to read a word of english as i'd been in holland and germany til that point... i got heaps of one on one teaching and extra help, then i 3rd class i was ahead in reading and writing but hadn't yet started irish which the other kids had been doing since junior infants... again i got masses of help and encouragement, at this point i fell behind in maths and yet again, it was picked up on instantly and the teacher helped me and supported me til i had caught up with the class.

all through this my parents had to work with me at home to help me keep up but my teacher played a massive role in noticing when i was struggling, differentiating my coursework from the other students, spending one on one time with me... even if only 5 mins a day.

all that being said, alot of teachers nowadays don't seem bothered, my cousin was in a smaller school school in dublin and completely failed to learn to read and the school never seemd to notice or care... when he moved here and started in a nice village scool though he received excellant help and encouragement and was finally assessed and found to be mildly dyslexic (which even i had spotted years ago from helping him with homework so how his old teachers didn't spot it is baffling)

it all depends on the teacher... the one with 30 could be excellant and the one with 20 a lazy uninterested idiot... meet them if possible and ask other parents.

I believe it's possible to differentiate between 30 kids, and pretty quickly at that. DD has the teacher my neighbour's DS had last year - by the first parents' evening she'd picked out that he 'walked like a penguin' when he felt insecure, now that's not even the result of having two TAs and a parent helper, that's the actual teacher observing the child. After two parents' evenings for DD, that's definitely my child she's talking about, although the second one involved a lot of ME aged 5 as well (spooky!)

I'm actually quite in awe of this ability, as most small children look the same to me, but it does reassure me that it IS possible.

Quite possible (necessity finds ways and means) smaller classes certainly makes life easier and allows more individual attention and wouldn't we all like a class of 20 with 2 TAs?