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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

In a quandry about primary schools

36 replies

eastereggfeaster · 17/04/2009 15:53

Ds was all set to go to a pre-prep that we love in September. We have paid a hefty deposit. The only downside is that it's quite a drive away.

I cheekily put a school on our state primary application that's quite far away too - we're out of the normal catchment - and also a drive away and assumed that we'd never get a place. It has some of the best SATs in the area and is better than our more local option. It is a nice school and attracts lots of families who could afford to go private.

However the Ofsted was really not that good (in 2005) and it's a c of e school and we are atheists. And it lacks the lovely facilities and small classes at the private school.

And we've paid the deposit for the private school that we love.

We can afford the private school without making huge sacrifices although like most people these days, we will notice the fees.

I think my gut feel is to stick to plan a - the pre-prep - but I'm a bit unsure.
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Metella · 17/04/2009 16:09

Why was the OFSTED not good? What sort of negatives did it pick up? If it is anything to do with the head or the management (and these are the same as in 2005) then I would steer well clear.

You sound like you prefer the pre-prep but are the two journeys comparable? Will one of them drive you mad after a few weeks?

Original poster

eastereggfeaster · 17/04/2009 16:47

It was in part about poor teaching and poor management. Yet the school does very well in SATS and gets lots of kids into selective state and private senior schools.
Seems a bit strange.

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Original poster

eastereggfeaster · 17/04/2009 16:49

p.s. the pre-prep is about 20 mins away and the state primary about 10 mins but parking is a bit tricky.

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Metella · 17/04/2009 16:57

Poor teaching and poor management would put me off completely, I'm afraid. The good SATs results and the number of kids getting into good senior schools could well be down to private tutoring.

A 20 minute drive isn't too bad (I do that every day!) but did you time it at school run time?

I think the pre-prep sounds better. Does it get its children into good senior schools?

ilovemydogandMrObama · 17/04/2009 17:05

Could you go and 'interview' the headteacher at the state school?

There is a really terrible school near us, and a school that is quite some distance, but just had an 'outstanding' OFSTED report....

But, the less performing school is about a 3 minute walk, and there is a new head teacher. The school is being moved into new premises, and was speaking to another local mom who pointed out that the last OFSTED report was about 4 years ago and the pre school that feeds into the primary school is excellent

So, discuss your concerns with the local school and see what they say!

Original poster

eastereggfeaster · 17/04/2009 17:05

That is a very good point as it's definitely the sort of school were loads of kids get tutored...friend whose kids went there said she couldn't have got him through entrance exams without tutoring.
But then lots of private school kids get tutored. See your point though that the results don't reflect the quality of teaching.

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happywomble · 17/04/2009 17:31

I would be put off by poor teaching and poor management but things could have changed drastically since 2005. I would go round the state school again and also speak to current parents if possible.

I think a local school is ideal at primary age. I have tried the 20 minute school run and found that it is expensive petrolwise, and often takes a lot longer if the traffic is bad. Your DC will end up with friends living miles away and playdates will be harder to arrange.

Obviously if you work in the direction of the school, or are happy to pay the petrol and spend the time doing the extra journey this will not be a problem. If the journey is the only drawback for the private school and you are not that happy with the state option maybe you should stick with the private school.

Good luck in making your decision!

Original poster

eastereggfeaster · 17/04/2009 19:27

Bumping for more opinions.

Another point is that state option is mixed but the private school is all boys and ds quite likes girls.

But private option has lots of fab activities and state has very few and poor facilities really.

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smee · 17/04/2009 20:35

Go and see both again and then make up your mind on instinct. I seriously wouldn't go on reports of any sort, they're often not reliable. See where the kids seem happiest, have a list of the same say half a dozen questions that matter to you about your child's education and see how each school answers them. Then just go with the one you like best.

happywomble · 17/04/2009 20:44

I agree with Smee. Instinct is better than reports!

Try to chat with both Heads. I think it is important to like/respect the Head of your chosen school and to feel that they are approachable if you ever have a concern.

Original poster

eastereggfeaster · 17/04/2009 20:46

Unfortunately I don't think we can visit the state school before we have to make a decision as we'd have to give the prep a term's notice - i.e. tell them before the end of Monday.

Am going to have to rely on what people with kids there that I know say.
I guess even if he went to the state primary and it wasn't working out we could just take him out and get a place at a private school anyway so there isn't much to lose. Especially with the state of the economy there will be places available.

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Original poster

eastereggfeaster · 17/04/2009 22:05

bumping for more opinions...

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Original poster

eastereggfeaster · 17/04/2009 22:25

Still struggling. I think my OP wasn't very succinct or clear so am going to redo it as much for my sake as anyone else's! Here are the pros of each.

School one

closer (10 mins drive each way)
typical class of 30
mixed (and ds currently has quite a lot of friends who are girls - not a boisterous boy)
tiny school, no facilities, not great ICT or sports
would probably move ds at 7 to another school with more facilities

School two

further (20 mins drive each way but potential for car share as there are quite a few local families)
typical class of 18 (and with two FT assistants)
medium sized school, good facilities
boys only
no need to move at 7.

Another key point is ds is pretty bright and so might benefit in a smaller class from more differentiation.

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newgirl · 17/04/2009 22:34

id get up on monday morning and do the drive to the private school - that way you will truly know what you are committing yourselves to. However fab a school is if your child is commuting he is going to get tired which will have an impact on how much he can take in

if you will definitely move him at 7 then the private school is a good idea as less disruption

shame only boys though (unless he has sisters? perhaps less important then)

a class of 30 can be better for a bright kid - more range of kids to work with - a good primary can cope very well with bright kids (my dd in class of 30, a june birthday, and does work from year above without any fuss)

Original poster

eastereggfeaster · 17/04/2009 23:03

Journey been done and have checked with other local families - 20 mins ish. Would be a pain and an earlier start in the morning but I was happy to do it for a great school.

No he doesn't have sisters Newgirl.
And actually if we did ever have another it would be a negative if it were a girl as we'd then have two kids at different schools so wouldn't really be any better.

I really am torn on this can see both sides of it.

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Clary · 18/04/2009 00:03

Easteregg have posted on yr other thread too.

I am not keen on single-sex school myself. I hate the way anyway a lot of kids divide up so soon in terms of friends/parties etc.

But DD (for eg) has a lot of boys she is still pally with even in yr 3.

How far away is 20-min drive? Where I live that would be as much as 10 miles. Can't imagine that - but then we do a lot at school. Is 10-min drive one walkable at all (worth a lot imo).

Also is 10-min one actually local to you ie do kids in yr area go there, or do they go somewhere nearer? If so, advantage of nearness is more or less lost anyway.

How big is state school? One class per year? or a lot smaller?

thirtypence · 18/04/2009 05:28

Ds loves girls - all his friends at kindy were girls.

He's at a boys prep - it's not a problem.

A 20 minute drive not a biggie - ds reads in the car both ways and therefore has done half his homework before he gets home.

nooka · 18/04/2009 06:11

I think the issue here is that you haven't visited both schools. I would never send my child to a school I hadn't visited. It is much too high a risk. I personally would not send my child to a religious school as an aetheist parent, but then I would also avoid a single sex school (they offend my feminist principles). I would see small classes as a bigger issue for a child that was struggling than a child that was bright. I don't see facilities as being the be all and end all - these are things that can easily be supplemented through out of school activities (with the plus being that you may be able to afford them if you are not paying for school). The key for me is always the relationship between the adults and the children and the ethos of the school being in tune with your own values. I would pretty much disregard an Ofsted from four years ago, and be more interested in value added.

However at the end of the day you have paid up for a school you loved. Assuming you can afford it, then why toss away a school you love for one you haven't even visited, and might hate?

thirtypence · 18/04/2009 08:00

If you love the school you have paid a deposit for and he's got a place then take it, especially over a school you haven't seen.

If the state school is so popular then how come you got a place?

thegrowlygus · 18/04/2009 08:10

No answers from here but recognise your problem! We have a place at a great private school which we were very happy with because the state schools here are actually nonexistant (not built yet for september!) and no track record. We put his name down for a good state school, but we are not in catchment and had no good reason for him going there except we liked it. Typically, we have had our letter today and he has a place at the good state school.

Now feel a bit gauled that we will be stretching ourselves thinly to afford school fees when he could''ve/would've probably done just as well in the state school.

I guess sod's law if we had left it he would be going to the school that doesn't exist. Or getting bused to 3 villages away to the substitute school which is bleak.

Ah well. Beans for tea.

Original poster

eastereggfeaster · 18/04/2009 08:33

I really, really wish we'd not ended up with this dilemma. Woke up this morning and thought oh no, we have to sort this out'.

If I'd known all along we'd get the place at this state school, I think it would have been simpler.

I am trying to visualise his first day at each school and how I'd feel / which I'd feel more enthusiastic/ excited about him going to.

Nooka - definitely not going to take an notice of the Ofsted now as you're right, it's too old and the head has changed.

I hear what a couple of you are saying re not even having seen the state primary - we can't possibly see it now before we have to decide (by Monday) so it's all a bit of a nightmare (although can't complain in a way as we do have a choice). I'm going to speak to a couple of mums I know well with kids there.

Clary - no it's not really walkable on a day to day basis - possibly occasionally. Probably a 30 min walk with ds. And the road is too busy to cycle on.

Best education will undoubtedly be at the prep from what we've seen but in terms of lifestyle, the primary might be nicer given it's closer, less of a rush in the mornings, and is mixed and part of a community we are sort of part of anyway.

Thegrowly - thank goodness it's not just me (sorry!) - you have my sympathies!

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thirtypence · 18/04/2009 10:40

Ds went to our local good primary for 2 terms until his place came up at the private school I work at. It was nice having a transition to school which meant we could cycle there setting off an hour earlier than ds has to set off now (earlier start plus dh needs to get to work on time). But there were so many things that I could just not bother to get worked up about because it was only temporary. Seeing 34 children in one classroom is an eye opener when you are used to that being 2 classes.

But there is no way that I would have sent him to a school without having seen it. Why can't you just say yes on Monday and then go and look and say - well actually no - if you don't like it? Given that your other option is private I can't see that it would cause a problem. It might not be moral but we are only talking about a couple of days.

LIZS · 18/04/2009 10:46

Presumably you have to decide very soon , ie before the private school goes back , or you'll be liable for a term's fees.

MrsMattie · 18/04/2009 10:50

If you were concerned about lifestyle, friends, locality etc why did you apply to a single sex prep half an hour away in the first place? I don't mean that to sound harsh...but think back to your motivations for doing that. What were they?

People have very different ideas of what a good primary education is. For some, academic performance is all. For others, the social aspect (local school, good social mix ect) is key.Obviously, we all want everything to be perfect for our precious children, but this is the real world, unfortunately!

I guess you have to work out what your main priorities are.

Just read this post back and it sounds snipey. I don't mean it to be. just trying to get to the crux of the matter. I do sympathise.

RustyBear · 18/04/2009 10:58

I'm surprised the latest report was 2005 - inspections are normally done a maximum of 3 years apart and schools that get a good report have the longest gap. Are you sure there isn't a later report?

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