Waiting Lists - how far do they usually go

[xfabba]

My ds did not get a place for Reception at any of our three preference schools.

For 1st choice (nearest) he is 23 on the list (90 intake) i.e forget it.

For 2nd choice (second closest) he is 13 on the list (30 intake) i.e forget it too.

For 3rd choice (furthest away) he is 3rd on the list (90 intake) - does he have a chance here?

Also, can someone explain to me why he is furthest up the list on our third choice school which is much further away than the others. Is this because they received less applications overall?

We are appealing for first and second choice, an excercise in futility by the looks of it. Just wondered if he might get the third choice.

also, we declined the school they allocated to us. When I ask the LEA what will happen now they say "the onus is on me to find my son a school place" (wtf do they think I have been trying to do) - what do they mean by this? What more can I be doing at this point other than finding out where he is on the waiting lists and submitting the appeal forms?

I think if they have said the onus is on you they mean that they aren't going to do anything now as you haev turned down the only place they've offerd you.
Could you HE while you are looking for a place?
Tbh I would have accepted the place offered whilst appealing against the decision

What Compo said - it's too late now but you should never, ever turn down a school place as it means you are out of system and consequently bottom of all waiting lists - those still in system get priority. (That's system with my LEA anyway).

This means you have to deal with schools direct - you stand a good chance of getting into 3rd IF that's the placing they've given you (keep checking) - the other 2 sound more doubtful. But keep on the lists.

What I mean is what more can I do? Do they mean wait until September and term starts after which time do the waiting lists reset or what? Surely everyone that didn't get to the top stays on don't they? - or do I have to phone the schools then and request to be kept on the lists (last year apparently 30 odd children were kept at home until Xmas when they got places). They kept saying the onus is on me to phone around and find a school with a place - but when? I already know (from their published stats) that all the local schools (in our town and surrounding areas) are full as all went down to distance and so presumably all have waiting lists EXCEPT the one we declined. Even if there was another option - could I now phone them and say add me on to your waiting list please, or do you have a space - wouldnt that upset the parents who are already on the waiting list from the same application round that we went through?

Why do they only administer the first round when I was not allowed to deal with the schools direct? Does that mean I should be hassling the schools on a daily basis now? (I have already written and spoken to them all and they say they have no visibility of the waiting lists - all handled by LEA (except VA one) - is this right?

The school they allocated was the one we specifically asked not to get (pointless, I know) as we cannot walk or cycle to it, even though it is fairly close, as it is accessd from our house by an unlit, unpaved road. Also, it was closed down in January this year, (terrible) ofsted report removed from ofsted website and renamed and taken over by a local junior school where the head has a proven reputation for turning around failing schools (all old staff left and were replaced). I went to see her and the school (still on a separate site) and really tried to make it workable as it would save us a lot of time and stress to just accept it. However, it is very depressed and rundown at the moment. I am sure they will turn it around as the head was very inspirational but not in our timescales, unfortunatley. Most importantly, it does not yet have any wrap around care (no breakfast club or after school clubs) which is vital to us as working parents and this will not be in place by September. We felt it was wrong to accept a place that a more local family might want when we knew we would not send our child there this September.

I also think it is fundamentally wrong for them to try and force people to send there children to a school where there is not even an ofsted report for the school. I wanted to register the fact that there is a problem in our area with lack of primary places becasue if noone complains they try and say there is no problem.

hi PV - I dont think that is the case with our authority - I will be pretty pissed off if it is as noone mentioned that. I would have thought that from the waiting list places they have given us we are still in the system and me declining the allocated one hasn't made a difference to his positions.

hi PV - I dont think that is the case with our authority - I will be pretty pissed off if it is as noone mentioned that. I would have thought that from the waiting list places they have given us we are still in the system and me declining the allocated one hasn't made a difference to his positions.

I think ringing every few weeks for the school that you are 3rd on the list for is the best thing to do.
I would phone the school you were offered and ask if you can accept that place anyway.
You can always get a childminder to take to school and pick up? Home educating will be much harder if you both work fulltime
I know it is awful but the best thing to do is think worst case scenario

Oh dear xfabba

I have to say LEA guidance isn't always clear

Give it a day or so to cool down, then contact LEA admissions team again to clarify. You're in the same position as someone who'd just moved into area so tehre must be some procedure - can you get back into the system again and how?

When that's clear (hopefully) contact schools direct - certainly the third one. Even in oversubscribed areas you'd be amazed how many do drop out - people move, go private etc. Also the waiting list numbers have to be treated with caution - the same people can be on several lists if you see what I mean.

I have to go now but fingers crossed and good luck

Believe me, I have been thinking nothing else for the last few weeks since we found out, I have hardly slept.

I have just phoned our LEA to check and me declining the place has had no bearing on his waiting list positions for the other 3 schools apparently which are just done according to the criteria i.e distance. So I really don't think there is any point accepting the place we were allocated as he will not be going to school there.

I still don't understand how I could phone any school to see if they have a place as they are just going to tell me their waiting lists are handled by the LEA and they have done their bit, apparently.

What happens in September if he still doesn't have a place? (assuming appeals fail which odds are they will because of infant class size prejudice) Do they have some kind of obligation to come up with something?

xfabba - we are in the same boat as you know and have just spoken to schools admissions AGIAN and basically if you turn down their offer of a school place they then will allocate you an alternative place when they know who has accepted where 'where ever there is a vacancy' so could be miles away!
BUT i feel like you - I have no intention of sending my son to the school we have been allocated so why pretend we are going to???? That said there is no waiting list as no-one wants to go there!!!! The view I get from the schools admission people is you should be graetful for getting a school at all!!!!
Will keep you posted with how we get on!!!
good luck - its crap isn't it?? Especiall as everyone else seems to have gotten there allocated schools!

yes it is crap. Am thinking of you. Keep me posted.

xfabba

I feel so sorry for you. The same has happened to us, our dd hasn't got in to any of the three schools we applied to (three schools closest to us) and is miles down the waiting lists. We only live 600 metres from the first school! There are basically too few schools in our area for the number of children. I am so about this.

We have decided to educate dd1 privately but I am furious at being forced into making this decision when I didn't want it and equally furious on behalf of the many, many people who are not lucky enough to be able to opt for the private system. God knows, we will struggle to afford it.

Anyway, sorry I can't help but I just wanted you to know how disgusted I am on your behalf and how much I empathise. It's a horrible situation to be put in and no parent should suffer it. WTF do we pay taxes?

FWIW DS1 was 21st on the waiting list and we got in in June. That is on an intake of 60 in a very oversubscribed school in London.

I would have kept him at home otherwise, places do come up during the first day of term. Even if you take a place somewhere else, there's nothing to stop you staying on the waiting list and transferring.

schoolsappeal.com is useful, although unless you have good grounds the whole process is a bit of a waste of time. You could try writing to your MP as well.

I liked to phone the LEA on a daily basis. We became quite friendly in the end and the lady I spoke to every day made a point of calling me personally to tell us we had a place.

Don't give up, its not hopeless

Hi, I really sympathise with your situation, there are many in our area with the same thing happening. Rejecting a place doesn't take you off the system round here.

Locally those of us without a school we like (over 80 families!) have joined together to form a petition, could you write to the local press to see if they will do an article and include your phone number? This is how we started, I saw another lady's article and called her.

Anyone on this thread- you all clearly understand how frustrating this system is, please sign our petition:

www.gopetition.co.uk/online/26564.html

Thank you! I will let you know how we get on.

Hi, we have the same problem here. Our closest school, which is on our street, still did not offer us a place as we were too far away - judging by the number of cars that drop off there I'm not sure where they think the children who attend the school live! We ended up not getting offered anything by our LEA.

Someone had told me about this problem so we applied for schools in 2 other boroughs and
we ended up sending our DD to a school in another borough. Do you have that option? It may be worth looking into surrounding boroughs and what vacancies they have. There is a good primary in one of our neighbouring boroughs which is undersubscribed as its in the country and lots of people end up going there.

I would urge anyone applying for places to always apply out of borough too as it increases you chances of getting a school you have chosen rather than leaving it to chance.

Its a real nightmare so my thoughts are with you.

HJ I've signed your petition, happily. We were in our local press - see link. This contains my name and address but I am happy to do this to publicise this issue. I am quite frankly horrified at how bad the school admission system is. Everyone warned me but I had no idea it was so bad. You will see from the article that I am, as usual, being accused of being a middle class snob. In actual fact, I just want my children to have equal access to schools where they will be happy and well-educated.

www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/reigate/Reigate-mum-s-despair-school-place-fiasco/article-762499-detail/ article.html?cacheBust=82h1Jz78X2Y4&success=true#community

xfabba I saw that article originally and was a bit confused . Holmesdale is further away than your allocated school (if perhaps not as high in reputation) and it isn't really any more feasible or safe for him to walk/ride there surely. H is always oversubscribed too so realistically your chances of there were always slim, sorry. I think you may well get a place at 3rd choice anyway by Septemmber.

xfabba, is your son currently at a nursery school? He does not legally have to start school until the term after his 5th birthday, so even if he hasn't got a place by September you can still keep him at nursery school and stay on waiting lists/ appeal until then, which at least gives you a bit more time. Make sure you get advice on going to appeal so that you have a better chance of winning. Good Luck.

I see from another post you have a private school place as a back up - bear in mind you'll have to make a decision on that before summer term starts or you'll become liable for fees in lieu if you cancel.

yes he is currently at a private nursery. Actually Holmesdale was our nearest school by roads and pathways when we moved here so he would most probably have got in under the "child's neares school criteria" higher up the list, but they changed it to as the crow flies a couple of years ago so then we were 100m closer to the allocated school, which is 3rd closest by roads and pathways (it is down a very windy road).

We walk to the station everyday with many children on bikes, scooters, walking etc to our first choice school so I am a bit confused at to why you think this wouldn't be safe? It's about a 10 minute journey? And the roads are paved and lit. Equally to our second choice school, partly through the park. Even the third choice one is just about walkable or more probably cyclable (if that is a word) timewise - we regularly cycle up there to Reigate Hill, Redhill etc. The allocated school is accessed by an unlit, unpaved road that is designated as unsuitable for pedestrians. I am confused as to why you are confused.

I don't want to have to drive my children to school, especially short distances. I want them to have an active lifestyle. Other children where we live have this opportunity. I don't think that is unreasonable, do you?

Maybe you aren't whereabouts I had thought , it's a long road . However I couldn't imagine crossing then heading up the A roads would be any safer for your ds at that time of day. Whereas the other school is at least on the same side of town for you, if among a wider range of housing. Sandcross has been called something else in its recent past hasn't it ?

I think you have got the wrong idea of where we live we are less than a minutes walk from the high st. We walk to the station (and nursery) with loads of other children going to the same school. He would be with me obviously, I am not going to send him out on his own at 4!! The issue is about safe routes to school which is defined as any route paved all the way and lit. Our three choices (out of 5 possibles) all are, the other two are not.

Anyway, the specifics of the schools involved are not really the point, the point is that there is clearly a problem with lack of primary school places where we live and elsewhere (all apart from the one we were allocated were oversubscribed and have large waiting lists). Children, like mine, who live in the centre of town cannot go to their local schools as part of their local community (we are in R Central). Why isn't primary school provision expanded to keep up with all the new housing developments? When I asked I was told there is no funding. Why isn't there any funding?

Hi xfabba, thanks for signing the petition, your situation sounds pretty much like ours. And it is unfair that you are being judged for wishing to make a choice rather than settle for what you have been given!

Thanks HJ - I think it is the idea of choice that has caused much of the problem (as the new head of the school we were allocated wisely told me). Before they introduced the concept of parental choice, children could reasonably expect to go to their nearest schools as measured logically by how far it was by defined roads and pathways i.e where they could actually walk or cycle to school (as they are encouraging). They introduced the illusion of choice as a vote winner and now tell parents, visit all the schools, read the ofsted reports, try and judge which school would be a good fit for your particular child (as only you know details like are they shy and introverted and might flourish in a small, quieter school, are they showing sign of being particularly sporty, academic etc etc). But of course the funding has not kept up with development during the boom years so now any school with a good reputation is massively oversubscribed and it becomes a numbers game.

You spend all that time looking at different schools for your child to then be treated as a random parcel to be shuffled into whatever space there is, regardless of the practicalities of getting to the school or the quality of education currently on offer (in our case, to a school that doesn't even have an ofsted report for parents to look at as they have removed it from the site). Then they changed to a silly measuremnet system of as the crow flies, regardless of whether it flies over a motorway, through a brick wall etc because it is easier for the council to administer and doesnt involve any legwork on their part (most LEAs doing this now).

Then to cap it off, when the parents who lose out in this lottery (or are stupid enough like me to think you shouldn't need to play the system like other parents, doh!)have the cheek to say, heh, this isn't really fair is it?, they get accused of being middle class snobs! I may be middle class but I am not a snob and my child is completely oblivious of class, status, etc - he just wants to be able to scoot to the same schools as his friends from where he lives.

I quite agree! I don't know how I'd feel if our nearest school was a failing one, but I do feel that whatever the standards of the schools, the nearest school should be available to the child! And if there are not enough places, make more! Simple!