Ok... so who can talk me through the appeals process????

[grumpalumpa]

Am absolutely gutted as DS has not been offered a place at any of the schools we requested - the school we have been given is not near us, has a less than attractive ofsted reposrt and mentions that the children are constantly disruptive during lessons and fail to learn! DS is really sensative and needs lots of 'hand holding and encouragement to achieve things' which I can't see happeing here! What can I do???
Any advice would be appreciated

You can subscribe to schoolsappeal.com for a fiver and download the info, all of which is really helpful.

IME you need to have substantial medical/social grounds to win, although it does set out the arguement of space/teaching capacity.

Where are you on the waiting list? Places do come up, even on the first day of term.

Personally I made my choice and homeschooling was going to bridge the gap if necessary.

Cheers foxsake very helpful, will try that. We have medical grounds, he has problems with his hearing and speech and therfore in my opinion a disruptive class is not going to help him. I can't find out until the 8th where he is on the waiting lists and will give up work to home ed him if need be - can I be nosy and ask whether you suceeded in appealing??

Start by trying to see it from the LEAs point of view (always helps to see the pov of the person you are trying to sway).

They have now allocated places, hopefully by following their own criteria.

They cannot accommodate your ds by throwing out another child who has already been offered a place.

So if they are to offer your ds a place, they will either have to stretch class numbers (not allowed above a certain number in infants) or employ another teacher. Which is going to come expensive.

You will therefore need to prove why your ds's need for this is so strong as to outweight the disadvantages caused to the other children/the school by doing so.

If you can prove that the LEA has failed to follow their own criteria, then they will have to offer you a place.

If not, you will have to prove that your ds has special social or medical needs which cannot be met by any other school. The concern about children being disruptive is going to be the same for all parents: they can't offer the whole county a place at your preferred school. Lots of parents are going to think their children are extra sensitive.

It needs to be something that sets your ds apart, and it needs to be supported by evidence, e.g. a letter from a paediatrician, educational psychologist etc. A parent saying that "my child is sensitive" won't be enough, lots of parents would say that to get their child into their preferred school. You need to provide evidence that your ds's sensitivity is such that he has been getting ongoing medical support. Otherwise, they'll just shrug and think "well, other sensitive children have to cope".

Our dd got into secondary (where they are allowed to stretch classes) but only after we had provided medical evidence from three different sources that she was wheelchair bound and that the schools offered did not have disabled access: we got turned down on our initial application because we only sent in a letter from her GP.

Just seen your last post. Problems with hearing and speech is just the kind of thing you could use: contact any medical professionals who have dealt with him in the past immediately, to get them to write supportive letters. These letters have to explain exactly how your preferred school can help him. Try to think of a way that does not criticise the other school iyswim.

Does he get extra tired? Is that a reason why he should go to a school nearby? Get someone to write a letter!

Does one of your preferred schools have a special scheme for helping children with special needs? Ring them and ask.

Cory is right, get everything supported by official letters. Although they won't give you a place by taking it away from someone else, they can put you first on the waiting list.

I wasn't successful at appeal. I wrote to my MP too. I was that nightmare mum who was obsessed by the whole process, and we got in on the waiting list by June anyway. I make no apologies for it, I needed to do everything I could to get DS1 in, because it was important to us. We felt it was absolutely the right school, and although the other was good, it wasn't the right one. And I'm glad I dug my heels in. They are all very happy there.

Cheers cory, I can see exactly what you are trying to say and don't want to appeal on the basis of "just becuase I wanted this school" etc I want to get a strong case for appeal if we are going to follow that route. We spent ages visiting/reveiwing schools which would be best suited for his needs and choose the schools we did because of the excellent assistance for special needs -

"We spent ages visiting/reveiwing schools which would be best suited for his needs and choose the schools we did because of the excellent assistance for special needs - "

that sounds very promising. What you now need to do is to put this into writing: what is it that the school you are applying for can offer that no other school can- then make sure the doctors' letters stress your ds's needs in precisely this area

CAn I ask what support he gets for the SN?

Would it be owrth examning the IPSEA website an trying to get a statement? Now there are no guarantees there but if they give one you'd get the next available space at the school a,d could even just use the fact you were in the process on the appeal.

It may be that your child doesn't fit the criteria but would be well worth a perusal.

You guys are so good - thank you. Rather then me going into panic mode I am now looking at this constructively. Ds has not got any 'confirmed' needs as such as we are still ongoing tests etc but they think he has around a 40% hearing loss which in turn is affecting his speech. He tends to 'zone out' at nursery as he cannot define what is going on and becomes withdrawn and frustrated. The schools we choose said they would give him one to one to ensure that he understood and did not fall behind - other schools seemed to have the attitude that ' he would manage' which I found ing.... although maybe I am just being a fanatical over pretective mother and he would manage!!!??

It sounds like you have a good case.

Unlike me who was just being stubborn

Best of luck, do let us know how it all goes.

If he is liekly to require one to one then the only way you will get that guaranteed is a statement; anything else is just a promise- a statement provides his needs in a leaglly binding format.

You really should be looking that way I think.

cheers Peachy - I will look down this route also, but just comparing recent ofsted reports our allocated school received:
How well learners with learning difficulties and disabilities make progress Grade 4 - Exceptionally low
where by our desired school was Graded 1 - Exceptionally and consistently high
Is it worth highlighting this or will it look like I am slagging off the school????

Hi there just wanted to sympathise as my sone didnt get any of our 3 preference schools either and I know how gutting it is. It sounds to me like you have a good case if you can get documentary evidence about his needs. Teh appeals process itself is a nightmare and veruy unlikely to succeed at reception due to class size legislation.

xfabba - its crap isn't it?
am now really as have just spoken to the school we really would like him to go and have been told that there really is little point in appealing as if they are over subscribed then basically they can say case closed as they physically cannot fit him in without having to take into account any other circumstances. I asked where that left us and was told other than sitting on the waiting list.....

You have any sympathies too - we didn't get any of our three choices either. Were there any other schools apart from your first choice that you would seriously consider in light of what they've just said? Are there any others you didn't go and see which could now be an option? You can go on waiting list for as many schools as you wish round here, so if you can too would get on those ASAP while you get your case together for appeal.

grumpa at least one child will pull off the list before Septembre almost guaranteed- maybe becuase they moce, go to Private or whatever.

Therefore your job is to be as high a priority on the waiting list as possible

advice on SN aspect

the people I refer to as my kickass friends

Is he at nursery? make sure any needs he has are docmented i prep for pursuing this. IEPs etc.

the "choice" system is fundamentally flawed and a disgrace imo. It is awful. I think you need to get evidence. I am taking my son to see a consultant next week before the appeals. I know people who have got their children into our first choice with more flimsy reasons than yours which sound compelling to me. unfortunatley, it is just a numbers game.

Peachy, we are on the waiting lists for all 3 schools we failed to get into and are going to appeal for the first two, on principle, is there anything else we should be doing? (my ds does not have SN). All other schools in the area are full apart from the one we were offered and declined - see my other thread here on waiting list places

Good luck with it all.
Xfabba, I don't think choice comes into it anymore. I also think the problem has been caused or at the very least exasibated by the government allowing builders to create huge new developments without forcing them to provide infrastructure to go alongside them. As a result, local schools and doctors surgeries become stretched to their limit.

I honestly do not remember anyone having any problems getting into their local primary when I was growing up.

xfabba not an expert on this but I have read lots of threads on here over too many years where the ones who get to the top of the waiting list are the ones who pal up with the Secretary (often the most influential eprson in a school) and call weekly to find out their place on the list..... she who shouts loudest and all.

But the school secretary dosen't p[erate the admissions process, surely. It's all done centrally through the County, here, according to their strict criteria.

Hi all, yes this is what disturbs me most about the whole sorry mess - officially there is no way I can influence it - waiting lists held centrally by the county council etc tec. but time after time after time after time I hear very reliable stories about people doing exactly what was suggested - keep ringing the school, best friends with the local vicar, know the head etc etc etc. I am quite happy (now) to play the system as much as I can but I need an opening/way in.

I am going to start phoning the schools on a weekly basis and may even go in tommorow - ironically, the ones we didnt get into are a stones throw from where I live. In our town you are exactly right - lots of development in the boom days and no investment in schools, doctors, dentists. I swore I would never play the system and was quite happy to use the facilitices that I pay (through the nose for) in income tax and council tax (I pay over £2000 a year and yet my child cannot attend one of his local schools can you believe it?). But I now find myself in the bizarre position of being forced to use private dentistry, healthcare and now the very real possibility of private education for my children. This does not sit comfortably with me. Due to recent experiences I now think F* it, who is suffering for my moral high ground? My child who is excluded from his local community through no fault of his own - I am going to go to church like all the other famillies who play the system for schools as I am not going through this nightmare again for our other child. This in itself is sad I think.

Clam - in most authorities the LEA operates the waiting list for a year or so, then the school operates it so yes, once the school is running the waiting lilst get pally with the School Sec!

Ours has it from day one

So my big tip....

find out how it works in your LEA PMSL

You stand a better chance of getting into a school of your choice by getting on their waiting list and contacting them very regularly for updates, than by going to appeal.

Having done an appeal before, it was obvious that the panel had heard it all before, but were obliged to sit and show a polite interest for an hour and smile sympathetically at frequent intervals.

The LEA don't even bother to prepare a particularly strong case for refusing, they'll just repeat very matter of factly: "We are sorry not to be able to offer X a place at Y school, however, infant class size prejudice.........."

Invest your energies in chasing up the schools!