Primary schools where the majority of children speak English as a second language - any experiences please?

[ThursdayNext]

DS has been allocated a primary school place for September at a school where the great majority of pupils are from mixed ethnic minorities, and at least half of the children in Reception are usually at an early stage of learning English.
We have looked around the school, and liked it. The OFSTED is good for the Infants, not very good for the Juniors but it is supposed to be improving.

I wondered if anyone had any experience of this type of school. I find it very hard to imagine how the teachers actually teach when so many children don't speak English, although the atmosphere seemed fine when we looked around so they seem to be maintaining order somehow.
Are friendships a potential issue? Do some ethnic groups tend to stick together so there are less possible friends in the class?

My dc's school has very high number of pupils with English as an additional language. As Califrau said, it sometimes the parents that can be a 'problem', not the children.

Children learn very fast, and are immersed in an English speaking environment for a good part of their day. For example, there is a girl in ds' class (Reception) who is Polish. Her mum said to me recently that she was having problems understanding her dd as she has learnt so much in the last term or so! (ie, the dd's English is better than her mum's)

One problem dd (Yr3) has though is that some of her friends aren't allowed to play after school/at weekends.

From what I've been reading/hearing about our local schools - particularly the one that is in special measures - there is no particular problem with having a high proportion of children with EAL in Reception/Year 1, but problems can arise when a large number of children are arriving with little English further up the school if the necessary support isn't in place. This situation obviously doesn't apply to all schools with a high proportion of EAL pupils.

Interesting post Califrau.

From what I've been reading/hearing about our local schools - particularly the one that is in special measures - there is no particular problem with having a high proportion of children with EAL in Reception/Year 1, but problems can arise when a large number of children are arriving with little English further up the school if the necessary support isn't in place. This situation obviously doesn't apply to all schools with a high proportion of EAL pupils.

Interesting post Califrau.

Lots of thoughtful and interesting posts, thank you, will catch up with them all tomorrow.

Of course, English as a second language might mean absolutely anything. I am sure there are still documents kicking around their schools where my dcs (who have lived all their lives in the UK) are down as having English as a second/additional language, because that is how the questionnaires are arranged; there are no boxes for stating that actually, the child is fluent in more than one language.

Fairlady, lalalonglegs, mimizan, good to hear of generally positive experiences, thanks.

Iorek, I don't know anyone well who has children at the school. I know a couple of people vaguely (friends of friends), who are happy with the school but I don't know them well enough to be really nosey. Also know one set of parents who are not happy with the school, but that seems to be largely because it's not the middle class with excellent SATs school that they actually wanted their son to go to. I am actually avoiding discussing schools with people I don't know well in real life, it all seems to be a bit awkward. I would home educate if DS doesn't like school and we can manage it. Most of the other local parents are more the private education types who are rather appalled at the ethnically mixed, relatively deprived school DS is going to and keep on giving me advice about how to get him a place at a more middle class school. Sorry, I digress, I just mean I'm not sure local reputation is always that useful. OFSTED reports don't always seem that accurate and can be outdated very quickly, particularly if there is a new headteacher or other major change.

cat64, it would make sense if areas with long established, big ethnic groups like in Birmingham have bilingual staff, while this is probably less practical in areas with only have very localised pockets of a particular ethnic group such as in Glasgow. There are lots and lots of relatively small ethnic groups at the school DS is going to, so I wouldn't expect many bilingual staff.

drosophila, how intersting. I have been wondering if the middle class schools can attract better teachers because it's relatively easy, pleasant work, or if the disadvantaged schools often have better teachers because the work is more interesting and challenging. I suppose a lot depends on the head. Why is your son unusual, if I can be so nosey?

Califrau, yes, I do appreciate how difficult it must for the parents who don't speak English. Quite a few of them are refugees, I think. Playdates must be pretty low on your list of priorities if you have just escaped from the Democratic Rebublic of Congo. Equally I can see that the three Chinese girls in the class who start school without any English are pretty likely to be friends. I'm just trying to get a feel for how it all works in practice.

cory, the school has a very high proportion of children who are at an early stage of learning English, so not children like yours who are bilingual and fluent in both languages. Poorly phrased thread title, sorry.

My son attends the nursery of a London primary school with 80% ESOL children. It has an Outstanding Ofsted and lots of awards for best practice etc etc. The school employs a number of teaching assistants and learning mentors - the adult-to-child ratio in classrooms is excellent. This definitely accounts for the excellent 'value added' ie. that children who enter school at the age of 5 with little English are achieving well in all subjects by the time they leave aged 11.

The school's attitude is wonderful, too. The head is dynamic and wholeheartedly embraces the school's (and local areas's) diverse community. The school runs literacy, numeracy and IT courses for parents, there is a fantastic 10 week parent support programme that any parent can attend (but that's especially good for parents of children wit behavioural/SEN issues) and a weekly parent's discussion group which is great for parents wishing to improve their English. There are also lots of internationally themed events and projects running at the school at any time, and even at the nursery level, it is so noticeable that the children are encouraged to share and discuss their culture/language/nationality through play and learn to be accepting of one another. My son is of mixed race, but British born and bred, and he is getting on fantastically well there.

I don't mean to idealise it all, but it really does show that 'high number of non-English speakers' does not have to mean 'poor achievement'. A dynamic head teacher, good teaching staff, a good adult-to-child ratio in classrooms and a positive attitude towards diversity make all the difference.

Don't apologise, Thursday, it was me not reading your OP properly .

Still, those things can change, if it is a good school. Dd's friend had no English when she started in Year 5, but did well in her SATS the year after.

MrsMattie, the school DS will be going to is fine, I think, but it's certainly not in the Outstanding Ofsted and awards for best practice league. I don't think for a moment that having a high number of non-English speakers equals a bad school, but I think it must have some particular advantages and disadvantages, and there have been some really interesting posts about this. How have you found the out of school socialising so far?

On the socialising point, you will find that there will still be a few children for your DC to play out of school with. They have to work harder at these friendships as the pool of children is not as great. This is not such a bad thing for children to learn.

Our week-ends tend to revolve around being together as a family, with sometime spent with the DC friends. People we know with DC at the more middle class/mixed school 20 minutes down the road, spend the week-end ferrying their DC around in the car to parties/ sleepovers etc. They all look knackered by the end of the week-end.

ThursdayNext - in terms of the socialising aspect IME it is a bit difficult in the first couple of years when playdates are arranged mainly by the parents wanting to be friends etc (which is obv difficult if parents speak different languages) but once it is the dcs themselves who instigate then it doesnt matter.

Thursdaynext, DS will say things like ' Did you know the average human will eat 8 spiders in their lifetime while they sleep' or he will talk about Newton's laws of motion when discussing his swimming lesson. He has had to bring his Science books to school to prove that he is right about something or other.

Having said that he pretty much refuses to write anything in class (other than maths).

He is also keen on Philosophical debates and often looks at things very differently to other kids. So you see I think a school that maybe have a different outlook probably suits him. He is 9 btw.

I can live with less parties and so on, there seems to be masses of social stuff at the middle class nursery DS goes to, and he doesn't seem to particularly enjoy it yet. As long as there are some potential friends as school, that seems fine to me.

drosophila, he sounds like an interesting boy. I can see why teachers at a school where there is a lot of diversity might understand and suit him relatively well.

Thanks again, everyone who has posted. It has been a really useful and interesting thread.

The advice schools get from EMAG is don't "teach" English but talk to the child in English and make teaching visual so they connect what the teacher says with what they see. I have to say as a teacher I didn't feel very comfortable with the idea but it does seem to work