URGENT - Calling Primary School Teachers need some advice please on disruptive pupil in class

[mullercorner]

In a nutshell my son will be starting school in Sept and starting visits after Easter. (He is 4)

There is another boy who will do the same, we are friends with but his behaviour is somewhat should I say verging on "out of control". Thus always ends in disruptiveness and violence, and several of the children including my own copy - which I know is normal but totally unaceptable.

Recently his behaviour has become quite aggressive and violent...he punches and I mean throws right hooks, hits, pushes and pokes eyes. I am sooo sooo worried that my child is going to get "Tarred with the same brush"...all kids copy I know but when he is not around all the kids are great. His home life is rather wild - no set routine, bedtime cir. 11pm, junk food etc... His parents are lovely but let him rule the roost, they seem to think he is just "a boy being a boy" when the father "plays" with him they punch and kick and wrestle its all very aggressive.

Pre-school are aware of this but will not talk about another child to me, but say my son is an angel when he is on his own the days the other boy isnt there. I have spoke to the head mistress of the new school who says although they cant keep them apart when they start school, they will try as much as possible.

Im thinking of putting my son elsewhere.

Question to primary teachers - how do you handle this type of behaviour? Surely you would allow this type of behaviour to continue and disrupt the other childre - would you speak to the parents? Please, Please put my midn at rest, Im having sleepless nights over this

'scuse the typos.

I'm sure the school will deal with it, as others have said.

Can I just point out that you have headed your post "URGENT" when it relates to September (or to next month at the earliest), so it may be important but it's really not fair to head it urgent.

As a parent of a kid with disruptive behaviours I would agree that 6 months is an awfully long time. Also emphasise that just because school seem disinterested doesn't mean they are..... loads of parents have asked about ds1 and they are simply not allowed to give info about other kids out. I choose to explain his SN but others may not wish to, it has to be my choice.

Ritalin btw only works on peoplewith genuine ADHD did you know that? It acts as speed to others, just as a by the by.

The bihggest issues we've had haven't been with DS's taking up TA time but other apents of NT kids doing thir best to get 'a fair share' of the time allocated to DS's for their 1-1, I've had to literally push past parents on occasion as they think they have a right; its hard for a parent to know who is funding TA- school or statement. Statements are bloody hard to get.

I would give it twelve months. If this child still has 'issues' after that, and, like my son there are more like him in the class I would move schools. It doesn't matter how well a school does with these kids, their names come up again and again because their home lives never change. Of course, they learn not to misbehave in class mind... always in the playground, the dinner queue, in the cloakroom etc. It's the well balanced, well behaved kids that really have to suffer it on a day to day basis.

In the school that my son has left because there are more 'behavioural' problems than not, a new girl arrived. According to a TA I know well - the new girl was told off because she got shocked and upset with one of the psychos kids repeatedly banging and kicking a door. The rest of the class had grown so used to it they had learned to ignore it. She was the one accused of 'causing a fuss'.

I am in the exact position you describe and my DS started reception in Sept.He has been friends with another little boy for about three years, we know the family (a bit) and I know that the little boy's behaviour can be really awful.But I also like him and know that his parents do try and discipline him.
Anyway DS has come home today having been bitten by this child at school. Whilst this is clearly not acceptable, this is a first something that bad has happened and I suspect my son could well have been winding him up...I am really happy with the way school are trying to deal with him....and may I add..........the 12 other little boys in the class who all have their moments!! In my view EVERY school has children who have the potential to misbehave and other children have to learn how to live/work/play with them and learn that they need to behave differently - better they learn to ignore the naughty behaviour when they are 4/5, rather than be with angels till secondary, then suddenly discover bad behaviour at 11. That REALLY causes problems So don't worry! The schools expect this! x

Isn't it funny how it's always someone elses kid who's the pain in the arse ......???

psychos huh? Nice.

'their home lives never change. '

Can we consider why that is?

I do know a handful of kids like this- because there are some in every non-selective school. But I don't know a single aprent who doesn't care about their child; their home problems are usually caught up with other issues- the child who bit ds1 recently has a Mum with manic depression, others face challenges we may not know about- invisiable SN, poor parenting themselves, depression from isolation, all sorts.

Now, we can criticise because obviously we know better (I say we, I shouldnt because I am poor at times) or we can look to change things. I used to work for HomeStart a charity that does just that and it worked. giving people time and support and just acceptance changes the childrens futures immensely.

Now we cant all volunteer for HomeStart and we're not all suited anyway, but sometimes a coffee or a smile makes a difference.

It really does too... I am that 'isolated aprent'and have become so because of the ds's additional needs- its easier to hide in a corner than chat to someone who might turn on you. But when someone does chat, or even arrange a coffee, my life changes immensely. And it does filter down to the kids when their mum is happier and has a life.

That's a great post Peachy

"I'm sorry, but in my experience there is always a TA in every class."

Not in my 15 years' teaching experience, Rhubarb. Depends on size of school and funding.

I agree, great post peachy

Also I wanted to say please don't focus on this boy. School will have procedures in place to deal with any disruption. Alongside that, in reception, they work VERY hard to instil social skills in ALL the kids, and that includes encouraging the children to realise that they are responsible for their own choices and their own behaviour. It seems to me a very good strategy for limiting the impact that a disruptive child can have; you need to stop the other kids being influenced and led by the naughty behaviour.

Excellent post Peachy.

You can reasonably expect the school to protect your ds from any violence, by keeping an eye on the other boy.

But when it comes to your ds's behaviour, then he is responsible for that and the earlier he learns that the better.

My dcs have been to school with some children with quite disturbed behaviour; I have never had a problem with explaining that we are still expecting a certain standard of them regardless of what others are doing, and I have been happy for them to be punished if they have failed to live up to it. After all, that is what life is like- you have to stick to the rules, it's no excuse that other people may be criminals.

And I have found that even very young children can perfectly easily understand that other children may be struggling in ways that they are not.

I think your son will lead a very nomadic school life if you are considering moving him because of a naughty child.

Your son needs to know how to deal with children like these - HE WILL COME ACROSS THEM IN EVERY SCHOOL.

In DDs class (yr1) there are 4 very naughty boys - I know the parents of at least 2 of them and they work very productively with the school to try and change their behaviour. DD and other children, (boys too) in the class, deal very effectively with these boys - they don't copy and they are not intimidated.

You can't wrap your son in cotton wool - and it's detrimental to your son's development if you try.

Yes Rhubarb when your son comes home and gives a catalogue of how to deal with several in his class: ignore one, stay away from another, don't give eye contact when one goes from being normal one second to having a 'scary face' and then he throws chairs around the room (that was the boy kicking the door) as a mother you do feel that you have sent your child to be with psychos... I'm sorry that's harsh and I understand Peachy that the parents of these kids have their crosses to bare - but as I said before - it is my child having to cope with it all on an hour by hour basis. My child doesn't get a break like the teacher does. His sister once got threatened with a knife held to her eye at dinner time - she was 6 and this was a school OFSTED rated as 'good'. Thankfully we have moved them to a nicer school where they are much happier.

Incidentally, the door kicker, whose mother came up to me when she knew mine were leaving said "I hope it's not because of my son - you did you know he has mental health problems.."

Why is that child still in mainstream school? And why are other kids told they shouldn't react to it?

They are children, not psychos.

I'm sorry that school failed you and your children, but blame the school, not the children. A range of things can cause children to be disruptive; just bloody bad behaviour, an abusive home environment, ADHD, Aspergers, Autism, etc etc. However not all of these children are disruptive and neither should they be. The government have come up with several schemes that all schools should be implementing. There are also codes of conduct that staff members should be following.

These children need and deserve and education too. It's not their fault that they have these conditions, or shite parents who couldn't parent a bloody dead cat, or are being abused. For some of them, school is the only safe place they can go.

Labelling them psychos is just dismissing them outright. You can't do that with children.

I understand that your child is your number one priority. But as HuwEdwards says, your precious child will come across disruptive in some form or other in their lifetimes and if they've never encountered it, they won't know how to deal with it. That said, they shouldn't have to deal with it on a daily basis in the classroom. That is the school's problem then and not the childrens.

Report that school to the LEA so that other parents are not as exasperated as you are. But do not label these children, do not dismiss them. They deserve better.

Rhubarb - I take your point and if you knew me (I work in education believe it or not!)it is the behaviour I am really labelling - not the kids. I know a few of the 'psychos' would be lovely, bright kids if it were not for the parents. I have a lot of sympathy with what you say but I am being contentious out of sheer anger and frustration because my kids wouldn't say boo to a goose and I have never really got used to the sheer numbers of kids who are out of control. Not all disfunctional abused kids. Normal families with working parents who can't or won't teach their children the simple lesson of respecting other people.

Well if they're getting away with it in school, then I suggest the school are failing in their discipline poliy.

'Tis the way of the world I'm afraid. But it was just the same when I was at school.

When I was at school I don't think we had the behavioural issues we have now. Or is that just me?

The kids with Aspergers, Autism and so on were put into special schools. As adults they now cannot cope with the world around them. They've been surrounded by people with special needs all their life and they think of themselves in that way. Many of them could have gone on to lead normal lives, but are now so socially inept that they need protection.

We had badly behaved kids in our school. They set fire to the caretaker's car whilst he was on holiday. They nearly tipped up the ice-cream van whilst the man was still in it. They vandalised stuff. They smoked, they swore, they had sex (secondary obv!) behind the bikeshed, took drugs, dealt in drugs etc etc.

In primary school you always had the ones who would answer back, who was sat outside the office all the time, whose parents were constantly being called in. Kids would be torn apart for being smelly, because they hadn't been bathed. Their shoes would be falling apart. There were fights in the classroom and in the playground.

It was no different.

What I see now are children who are much more accepting of those who are different. There are still the children who are not bathed, but no-one says anything. Children are the only ones in their class still in uniform on non-uniform day and no-one takes a second look. Today's children are much more tolerant and accepting of others.

That much I do know.

I remember all of that and worse (we ought to write a book!) at Secondary... but not Primary. My kids have had to 'tolerate' 4 years of daily low level aggression from Reception class up and then I'm told to be sympathetic to parents who for whatever reason can't get their act together? My son came home in year 1 with 11 bruises on his leg once... and that was just one incident of many. Yes, I was angry at the school for not managing it properly and that was why we left but I can't help my blood boiling when another CHILD makes a decision in its brain to hurt mine.

It does us all. I hate it when others pick on mine.

Their last school was worse. A small country school full of rich kids. Just one TA for one child with cerebral palsy.

My dd was teased endlessly about not having a pony or a playroom or having shoes from Tescos. One half Thai lad joined and he was beaten up and the parents blamed him and told the teacher she was only sticking up for him because of his race.

This school, is in a town, it's much bigger and it has it's faults, but it's a whole lot better.

Which brings me back to my original point - give it 12 months and if it is not right find a school that is 'best fit' for your child.

Where are you people living a TA in every class ha that is a luxury that most places can't afford. In the school I am in there is a TA for 20h a week in nursery/reception. A TA in year 1 and 2 and non in the rest of the school. That does not include 1-1 supports.

In my class, I have a fantastic full time TA and a 1-1 support for a child with ASD.

However, I have 6 children with behavioural difficulties. It is impossible for my TA to deal with all the behavioural difficulties, so inevitably, I become involved with them, which means that I am not always teaching the rest of the class.