What ever happened to desk and chairs?

[WantManualForKids]

Good morning.

I have been a lurker on MN for a while, but felt the need to join up and pose a question that I can't find an existing discussion about. Not that I looked awfully hard?

So can someone please explain WHY younger children (6/7yrs) need to sit the floor in classes? It occurs to me that at some point in recent history a gaggle of educationalists sat about one evening and produced a detailed rationale for the 'Dispensing of the Need for Desks and Chairs', which was promptly adopted by our government and imposed on our children.

Sarcasm aside, does anyone know the benefits of this?

Thanks.

My DCs go to a very 'free range' school (for want of a better description) but still have chairs and tables. Ks1 children do not have their own chair/seat as they move around the class during the day to complete the different tasks. They only sit on teh floor for class discussions, stories etc. I think at that age it is probaably easier to have the children close together for this sort of informal session. Do your DCs do all thier work on teh floor WantManualforKids?

My kids are at an International School, which tends to adopt accepted best practices in modern teaching methods. I can't argue strongly aginst doing this (although i want to), but Yes, my 7YO DS sits on the floor for lessons for formal and informal lessons.

I have a theory that DS would be less fidgety and, um, disruptive, if he were sat at a desk. But if someone can explain that carpet sitting helps all kids because of X and Y then I can move on and figure out other possible reasons for his behaviour.

It does sound strange to be doing formal lessons on the floor. How can children be learning to write neatly etc if sprawled on the ground. I agree with you, my 7yo DS would be very fidgety if he had to sit like that all the time.

Probably to save money on furniture

Our reception class has a floor area but also tables, where they write.

My eldest sons class has large tables with about 8 children on. He spent a large part of last term with his back to the whiteboard, which I dont feel is ideal educationally plus he told me after he moved that he had "neck ache" when he sat there.

I do feel there is a element of "fitting as many children as possible" into a classroom - obviously single desks take up more room dont they.

Exactly bronze more to do with saving money than being of educational benefit.

Although in reception year they dont really have the attention to sit at desks for long periods.

I have never been in a classroom where there were no chairs.

Teachers do whole class teaching on the carpet then send the children to the tables to do independent or group work.

Single desks are out of fashion due to the emphasis on group work and a less restrictive and formal atmosphere in the classroom.

Im sure if they are writing they must have tables of some kind.

I appreciate that group learning is important I just dont see how sitting with your back to the teacher/board is a good idea. My son is fairly motivated so concentrated anyway but I would imagine for a more easily distracted child this would be a terrible idea.

When they are at the table the teacher will be working with a group or individual children. They will rotate so everyone gets a turn.

Honestly you really don't want to teach children who are facing away from you, that's why you do it on the carpet and then send them off to do stuff.

They write on whiteboards on the carpet. I have complained abiout this numerous times after several ruined jumpers and at one point insisted dd sat at a desk to write.

AT £18 a jumper it was no joke, marker pen does NOT come out.

That doesnt sound ideal sodor.

Humphrey my eldest son is now in juniors so they dont have a carpet area, all their teaching is done from the desk. He has now been moved so that he is facing the board so they are obviously "rotating" which children have their back to the teacher but it still doesnt seem ideal to me.

Thanks for all the comments. I must confess I don't know what proportion of the day is spent loafing about on a carpet - as I generously describe it - but it is true that the kids are then sent off to do work it small groups, sometimes at tables. There are about 12 in the class, so each group is usually 3 or 4. Half the time DS isn't sure what he is supposed to be doing because he wasn't listening, having been distracted by other kids or off a a world of his own... DS is very easily distracted, and actually a bit hyper.

I have read about the concept(s?) of different types of learners - global, analytical and integrated - where each type is better suited to different class/teaching styles. (if interested, see this article from grauniad). But frankly this is just stating the obvious as far as I can see.

So, am I right in thinking that sitting 6/7 YO kids on the floor is at worst a fad, and at best a way to break up the monotony of sitting at a desk for an hour (which is fair enough)?

Well it is a good way to break up the monotony of sitting at a desk. And it is the current fashion to have the class sitting around you as you teach. Doesn't mean it isn't a worthwhile activity though. You seem very hostile to the idea, why is that?

WilyWombat I agree that it is not ideal. I imagine the teacher has chosen the irritation of some children having their backs to the teacher over old style all desks facing the front because they are prioritising group work?

No, its not just a "fad". I have been teaching infants for nearly 20 years and all classrooms I have been in have included a place for "carpet time", as well as having tables/chairs etc of course.

It is much easier when doing storytime/teaching a new concept to have all the children sitting near you in a close bunch rather than spread out all over the classroom. It is easier for them to stay focused and concentrate, and also to see books/resources etc. Also it is much easier for the teacher to see the children and check that they are on task!

Another advantage is that is does allow for other kinds of learning, such as doing rhymes/movements etc, and also for learning in a more physical way -( perhaps by jumping on number cards, or making word puzzles,for example) which obviously benefits some children enormously. And yes, it does also break up the monotony of sitting at tables for hours at a time.

TheApprentice - that's what I meant to say! Typing one handed while bf slows up my thinking...

Perhaps I am a little hostile, and I admit it is not because I have any good reason to be. I am just floundering a bit, and frustrated, because I suspect DS would be less disruptive if seated, preferably next to a pupil where they balance each other out in terms of ability and behaviour. Just a theory. So I'm interested in people's options any real knowledge out there about why kids aren't using desks any more.

DS is either mildly and intermittently symptomatic of ADHD or he's just a fidgety, easily distracted little boy who is struggling.

Lots of boys are like that at 6/7 years WMFK! And imo its actually helpful for those kinds of children to do the carpet thing as they find sitting at desks very hard!! Being able to let off a bit of steam on the carpet could really benefit your ds. But I understand your concerns, particularly if your schooling was v different.

Humphrey I am v impressed you can bf and type at the same time!

Apprentice - Thank you. That's really interesting. It does seem reasonable that being closer to the teacher helps them to engage. Specifically with DS, when he is at home he can sit at his desk and do homework, drawing, writing on his own for an hour or two before wanting to do something else. Carpet time at school is a probolem for him and his teacher's response is to send him out of the class if he doesn't stay quiet and still after being asked to stop about 3 times.

Well TheApprentice is right - it's not a fad. But I am that the OP's DC don't sit at a table at all.

I visit many state primary school classrooms and have never seen one where the children are doing formal lessons on the carpet. How could they possibly write comfortably for a start - they need to be seated properly at a table to develop good handwriting skills.

I completely agree, that for some children sitting on the floor makes them more fidgety (especially boys) and some teacher's keep very young children on the carpet for way too long - like 40 mins or even an hour while they drone on.

Has he just started school? (just wondering as you say he is at an International School)

BTM,

I probably wasn't very clear - they do also have chairs & tables, but as you point out, only for writing etc. All communication from teachers is done while kids are sitting down, and that tends to be quite a lot of the time. I am due to meet with teacher later this week for first time, so will know more after that.

I don't have a problem with carpet time in principle so long as the kids are learning and happy & all that.

Off to meeting so much dash. Back later.

I remember carpet time when I was at primary school in 1979.

We had carpet time when I was in infants which was late 70s as well although it was mostly for story time.

Carpet time should be short and focused. Sitting for a long time IS boring, I would try to keep it to 15 minutes max when I was teaching.

There are ways try and help those children who are having problems sitting still. One method that some teachers use is having carpet tiles for the more fidgety kids. They have to stay on their own tile!

I agree 40 mins is way too long.