I just had an argument with DS's therapist and I need some outside perspective please, teachers opinions welcome

[TinySocks]

My son is 4 and has special needs (due to brain injury). He has improved so much, but during his short life he has had to learn every little skill through really hard work. Repetition, repetition and more repetition. Endless hours of hand-on-hand help and all sorts of activities.
He had zero play initiative, if it would have been up to him, he would have run around aimlessly or sat around looking at the walls. I have had to arm myself with a huge amount of patience to teach him things. It has really paid off, he is a different child.

However he has needed lots of motivation to do things. He will always have difficulties with new skills. One of his biggest motivations is me praising him. Picture me screaming ?WELL DONE DS?, or dancing and jumping up and down blowing whistles to show him how happy I am that he tried or achieved something.

I have just had a huge argument with his physiotherapist, I would really like your honest opinions. She says that I am now doing him a disservice by motivating him in this way. That he needs to learn to attempt tasks because he has to, full stop. That in school he will not have a teacher that will be motivating him individually and he will have a big shock.

I understand what she means, but is this an old fashion way of thinking? Don?t we all need motivation to do our job? I know the teachers will not be jumping and praising him the way I do, but surely a modern school will realise that some sort of scheme needs to be put in place to motivate students?

Thank you for reading this far.

I agree with you. Any decent teacher will recognise that things are hard work for him and will praise him accordingly. My DS has none of your DS's challenges and he lives for praise from his teachers (and to a lesser extent from us) - whether it is a 'well done', a good mark/star, or a sticker.

Granted that teachers may not be quite as exuberent as you but all the same I don't see what the therapist is getting at.

thank you stealthsquiggle. I think I'm feeling a bit sensitive, she's had me in tears about this.

As a teacher I jumped and danced and sang in praise all the time - the key being to be specific in my praise so it was always genuine. And I seem to remember from teacher training that you move from extrinsic motivation (stickers, singing etc) to intrinsic motivation (I did it for myself) gradually over time. I'd certainly expect a 4 year old to still be more at the extrinsic end of the scale.

I agree with you and lazybones. I think the therapist is being very hard expecting a 4 year old to be so self-motivated.

My dd is dyslexic and has coordination issues. It is difficult for her to do amny things at school- but she tries extremely hard. The school continue to award the effort with stickers and certificates. Without this I think she would stop trying.

I think therapist is being very harsh - as it's not even as if you sound to be offering material things - that he is being motivated primarily by pleasing you - and with language/social skills delay you need to do all the exaggerated voice/language/gesture stuff "the mommy voice" as I think of it - to help your child understand.

More agreement here.

It might be an idea to start working with things like starcharts (if you're not already) as these are easily transferable to a school situation, but I don't think I know any 4 year old who is intrinsically motivated.

My son's having a few problems at school and the headteacher has recommended massive over the top reactions when he does something good or makes an effort. Surely, where possible, teachers adapt to each child & what they need?

I suppose your physio might be saying they won't be able to do it all the time, but if he sees the other children doing something perhaps he'll instinctively want to copy. My two automatically do things at school/nursery they only do at home after much encouragement/nagging!

Thank you so much.
I've now stopped crying (what is wrong with me??? I feel like a 10year old being told off).

I feel so much better. The last thing I want is to do something that will make things more difficult for DS at school.

I think you are write YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch. I need to start using startcharts/etc that are more adecuate in a school setting.

TotalChaos, I've never used material things (edibles, presents,etc). Because he responds well to social praise so I haven't felt the need to do so. But I can understand that some children may need this sort of reinforcer.

Maybe it's time to find a different physio for DS.

I'm quite that she has made you so upset about a technique that (alongside an awful lot of effort) works!

When I worked with a group of teenagers with mild SEN , being ridiculously enthusiastic when they did something right was a big part of motivating them.

Use every and any method! If it works for your ds then it is right, if it doesn't then it isn't - that's the only indication you need.

You sound like you're doing a great job

TinySocks, I have no experience in this area, but this person is a physiotherapist and I am not sure how that specialism qualifies her to make recommendations in the area of behaviour etc.

crokky, the thing is she is a very experience lady (in her mid 50s) and has worked with many children. So she is very respected. She also has a teenage son with dypraxia so (although not the same as my son's problem) she has experience from a parents' perpective as well.

This is why I got so upset, because I really value her opinion. But with regards to education, gauging from all your answers I think she may be out of touch.

She also got very upset with me, I have never argued with her before. Maybe I'm just having one of those days.

Maybe she has so much faith in your DS and what you have achieved she was trying to inspire you with the confidence to try out being less instrumental in the motivational stakes?

I've know idea whether I agree or disagree, but if you have a good relationship and you trust her knowledge in general, there is a sensible and genuine reason for her suggestion.

I suppose, how will you ever know whether your DS can do things without singing and dancing praise if he never tries to do things without it...could that be the point?

hugs, TS I'm a sen teacher and we go absolutely OTT when somebody does the tiniest thing or tries to do something - so it is unrealistic of the physio (who incidentally possibly hasn't worked in the sen environment or in a school?) to be saying such things. You deserve congratulations for the things that you have worked on with your son, and he deserves every bit of the 'feel good factor' that helps him to keep on wanting to try new stuff. Good on both of you!

Like another poster, I also have a severely dyslexic 8yo and the enormous fuss that the school makes for every - and I mean every bit of effort he makes to tackle a piece of written work is what keeps him going too, he would have given up long since but the trips to show the head, stickers and praise keep him motivated.

What does this woman say ffs? Sounds like we are in a different world, I think that enough of us have just passed by here with comment to give you proof

Tiny, my DS is 4.5 and has similar challenges.

I am currently taking part in a parenting course which is entirely based around praise, it is aimed at children until they are 8 when (NT) children start to become more self motivated.

It recommends progressing from physical reinforcement (stickers, small gifts etc) to verbal reinforcement (specific, positive praise) as they learn each new thing/behaviour/appropriate response.

I heartily agree with you, if it wasn't for the high fives and whooping my DS would still be wandering around pushing a chair in front of him instead of making up games with his cars.

You are the expert on your son, she isn't. If she has been a physio for a long time she may have outdated ideas, a friend of mine is a physio in her late 40's she claims that you needed virtually no qualifications to become a physio all those years ago (she may just be being coy, but who knows).

I appreciate that you like and respect the physio btw, I'm not insulting her in any way, I'm just saying that her job is physiotherapy not education professional. Nor behavioural psychologist for that matter

Ohh, thank you gigglewitch and MarmadukeScarlet, knowing that a SEN teacher and a parent with a child similar to DS share my views really really helps.

You have no idea how relieved I feel.

By the way Marmaduke, that course sounds really interesting. Is it based around the concepts of positive parenting? (I bought a book about the subject and found myself nodding in agreement every other page).

hobbgoblin: you do have a good point, the ideal approach is to withdraw the motivation/reinforcer as things get easier for DS. Which I do, but it is new tasks he needs huge motivation for.
Regarding: "Maybe she has so much faith in your DS..", I don't know if she does, but I certainly do and that is my own motivation for working with him. I need motivation as much as he does. If I didn't have faith in his potential I would have probably given up by now.

I wouldn't worry, teachers treat DCs as individuals. The other point to bear in mind is that children are very adaptable and can often manage a different system, so that they just accept that 'this is the way you do it in school'. I would carry on doing what works for you.