Did anyone else struggle with the QTS Numeracy test for teachers?

[FlorenceofArabia]

I had no trouble with the Literacy and ICT tests but I have failed the bloody Numeracy several times . I'm a mature student and have always struggled with maths but got my GCSE a few years ago with lots of studying. However, I've done the practice materials and get by but things go to pot when I take the actual tests.

The invigilator told me she has had some students take and fail the Numeracy test over 40 - yes FORTY - times .

Help!

[Iklboo]

This probably sounds really patronising but it's not meant to be.
Have you tried the Brain Training games on the Nintendo DS? Ther are quite a few on there that require quick mental arithmetic, starting off easy and progressively getting more difficult. You can practice and watch your times getting quicker and quicker. I think there is a separate numbers/maths one out there too.
And Professor Layton and the Curious Village has loads of maths puzzles (which is wht DH hates it)
Again, please don;t think I'm being patronising - they can be a little help in getting your brain used to doing maths

[piscesmoon]

I don't know a lot about it juuule but I don't think that it is a mental maths test.
In a mental maths test you can jot things down, but you really don't have the time-you would miss the next question.

[FlorenceofArabia]

"Nothing that were in any of those tests had any bearing on my ability as a teacher and never will"

Exactly foxy. My friend, also a mature student, took all three tests in the same evening and passed them all. However, during the first term of her ITT she packed the course in after realising that she wasn't cut out to be a primary school teacher.

Iklboo - your post isn't patronising at all. I'm pretty confident of passing on Thursday at my - shock! horror! - 4th attempt but if not I'll take a look at the Brain Training games - thanks.

[ramonaquimby]

florenceofarabia - I wasn't trying to belittle you or your endeavours to become a primary teacher.

I said that taking a test 40 times (!!!) and never passing was really rather silly

And you come back and say

'does it really matter what you think?'

I didn't bother responding cause really it doesn't matter and life is too short to worry about what people might think about what I post on a message board, but there you are. Just sticking up for myself.

[Madsometimes]

FOA, I am not a teacher, but I would like to pass on to you my good wishes for today.

I am actually quite surprised that such a test is necessary for trainee teachers to do. As far as I know, you need to have a GCSE maths to teach. So, as a parent this is saying to me that educationalists are admitting that a GCSE in maths is not a good enough benchmark anymore. That is the concerning thing for me as a parent.

Have GCSE's been so dumbed down that teachers will not accept them as an indication of competence for their own profession?

I agree that there is a problem with some teachers not having the skills to teach gifted mathematicians in the top years of primary school. However, this is nothing new. My dh is a maths whizz, and when he was at primary school he finished the syllabus and was told to go back and start at the beginning again. He is now 40, so I am talking about back in the dark ages. In my own experience, I found that teachers with a natural ability for maths often lacked empathy with students that struggled. Certainly dh would be a terrible teacher. So struggling a little does not seem to be such a terrible thing, so long as you get there in the end.

[scienceteacher]

How did you do, Florence?

[FlorenceofArabia]

Thanks for asking, scienceteacher, but illness prevented me from taking the test on Thursday. I'm on antibiotics so hopefully will re-take next week. Will keep you posted!

And thanks for your comments, Mad

[nkf]

I had a look at it. It seemed to me that the mental maths would be a matter of extra practice, just to get quicker at it. The second bit had things I was unfamiliar with or perhaps had been taught once but had subsequently forgotten. Those scatter graphs for example.

[Alambil]

I'm cackin myself about taking the tests - I've put it off for aaaaaaages!

Anyway, my theory is that I've not "done" maths formally for 11 years, so when I sit the test stuff, it's rusty.

When I'm in the classroom, I'll be using and teaching and doing maths relatively formally each and every day. Therefore I'll get better at it as my grey matter reawakens and remembers stuff!

It's a matter of use it or you lose it (well, it goes to sleep, that's for sure)

[thirdname]

well, I haven't done maths formally for 27 years (it did take a while to calculate this do, maybe the shock of it) and I still managed to pass the practice test. I agree some things may be a bit rusty and I did maths in a different language but most of the test was sooooo basic!!!

[FlorenceofArabia]

Good for you, thirdname

[BoyMeetsWorld]

Hi FoA....

I'm having a Numeracy QTS nightmare, too.

Now, guys, I can totally understand why primary teachers need to be at this level of Maths (at least!) and also the Maths/Sciences secondary subjects. There are also subjects like History etc that I can see where it might come in...

But I teach English secondary.

Why exactly is a teacher with a 1:1 degree in English, A's in every subject across the board EXCEPT MATHS but holding a C at GCSE Maths a disgrace to the teaching profession or not worthy to become a teacher, merely because it takes them multiple attempts to pass the Numeracy QTS?

I don't follow.

& super good luck FoA....I hope you've passed & are getting on with doing what you love most by now

[ejames100]

If you are not teaching maths why does it matter if you have passed the numeracy test? My daughter did GCSE maths to get onto a pgce course, she is currently teaching her subject of Geography in a secondary school and is liked and respected by both the teachers and pupils. Yet because she hasn't and is struggling to pass the numeracy test she is only being paid as a assistant. It is very disheartening for her and others like her. Just because she isn't a natural a maths does not mean she isn't a brilliant teacher. Also just because some people are able to pass these tests easily does not makethem good teachers. It makes my blood boil! These test show that the government have no faith in the GCSE's and are just another obstivle to stop good teachers being paid their full worth!

[JaneiteIsTrite]

I think I read recently that they are not going to allow people to keep re-doing the tests until they pass: can't remember where though, so not much use.

[mummyofexcitedprincesses]

I visited the BBC GCSE revision site a lot in the weeks running up to my QTS tests and found it to be very useful revision. I passed second time and don't know anyone that passed first time- it takes at least one go to get the hang of the test format imo.

[happywheezer]

I remember these tests really well. They do prepare you really well for teaching primary and made me think about maths that i hadn't done for years.But it is hard! The pages change so quickly! I did pass first time but there was somebody there who had taken it more than 10 times and she was a mature student like you. Children are taught to do maths in a more logical way than I was ever taught, I'm 35 now, and I had to retrain to think differently. Can you when you go in write down the times table, decimal points, percentages etc. so you can look at it quickly, taking out the thinking time? You don't have to start the test right way and could spend the time doing some revision.

[lindathewriter]

The QTS Numeracy test is difficult. It's got very little to do with teaching content: it's not a test to show what you can teach in the classroom. There are only 48 minutes in which to do the test, it's online, and includes an audio section. There are copious paragraphs of (often poorly expressed) written English which have to be ploughed through in order to understand the question. I would suggest that those of you who haven't had a go at the test give it a try. I tutor for the QTS Test and I can assure you that tutees who are intelligent and numerate, and who are in all respects excellent teachers, can fail this test.

[mnistooaddictive]

I am a Maths teacher and like MANY mathematicians my mental arithmetic was never great. My algebra is amazing and I can apply formulas like a genius but numbers - let's face it you don't really do that at degree level! I can do mentalarithmetic now because I have had loads of practice teaching it! I only learnt my tables when I started teaching too! Stick with it, it is a matter of practice.

[aegeansky]

Florence, it's great that you want to be open about failing the tests, but like others here, I'd ask whether you're really considered the implications of going so much against the grain.

You might be in for a bit of a shock with higher ability children, even before year 6, as they may have blisteringly fast mental maths, for example. They will suss you out, and that might be very hard to deal with, depending on what type of school you're at. Some children will tell you openly if they think they are better at maths than you.

Please don't flame me for saying this. You posted the question on a public forum.

[piscesmoon]

Higher ability DCs are amazingly quick and you have to be one step ahead all the time.
It is such an old thread I can't remember if OP is a primary teacher-if secondary in a different subject I don't think it is important but to teach maths at any age you need it to survive in the classroom.

[aegeansky]

Yes, pisces moon! Like this fellow:

[bigbrotherslittlesister]

Finding the maths test and maybe maths in general tricky is really no bad thing as a teacher! It helped me to understand the misconceptions the children had and therefore plan for them better, really.
I agree with mnis in saying that practice is the key to it.
I have many friends who didn't pass first or even second time and they are fab teachers...as for the need to be one step ahead of the children...well, thats what planning is for

Good luck op, keep at it, you WILL get there

[mnistooaddictive]

Can I just add that you will ALWAYS have to teach someone who is better than you. I am a good Maths teacher but some of the pupils I have taught have been better mathematicians than me. All Maths teachers will tell you the same. They don't know more skills than me but they have a greater capacity to learn. You have to find a way to make this work. The very rare outstanding pupil will outclass his teacher at whatever subject they specialise in even at primary school. That does not make you a bad teacher.
There is a lot of stuff on the QTS test that is on the current GCSE but wasn't when I did GCSe (20 years ago). This is mainly Stats stuff but if you haven't met it before you can't be expected to understand it.

[Jazmyn]

wow, sorry I havent read the whole thread so if someone else said this I apologise but.....

instead of saying "if you cant do it then you shouldnt be teaching" (or whatever similar things people are saying) how about suggesting learning how to do the maths that's on the paper?!?!

Maths is indeed something some people are more naturally adept in but you can also learn how to do it quickly and smoothly by practice!!!

Good luck!

[DinahRod]

FlorenceofArabia could have taken the test 15 times by now , it's a very old thread.