Did anyone else struggle with the QTS Numeracy test for teachers?

[FlorenceofArabia]

I had no trouble with the Literacy and ICT tests but I have failed the bloody Numeracy several times . I'm a mature student and have always struggled with maths but got my GCSE a few years ago with lots of studying. However, I've done the practice materials and get by but things go to pot when I take the actual tests.

The invigilator told me she has had some students take and fail the Numeracy test over 40 - yes FORTY - times .

Help!

[mrz]

Zombie thread hopefully the OP has passed by now or found a different career

[Teacher24]

Wow, it's really sad to hear that some people genuinely believe that your competence in the classroom really hangs on your ability to pass this silly test. The numeracy skills test is unreliable on so many levels but that's an entirely separate debate. It is laughable to consider how much the test contradicts itself in the face of differentiation and inclusivity, both strong values at the centre of modern education. The skills test environment is by no means representative of a classroom experience. Therefore it is utter nonsense to say that potential teachers who fail this test several times under its pressure have no business teaching. Having taught for several years I've known some incredibly academically minded individuals, qualified to the hilt who've made terrible teachers and had poor levels of student achievement. Some of the better teachers I've observed that have struggled with maths and English, have actually taught more successfully because they relate to the struggles of their students and so go to great lengths to make sure they understand. Like a lot of things nowadays stopping perfectly capable people from achieving their dreams, this test is just another paper work detail. Appease the government by getting it done then forget about it and get on with being a damned good teacher.

[spanieleyes]

Surely that's the point though ( and yes I appreciate Florence is probably either a Head by now or decided it wasn't worth the hastle!) Any prospective teacher should have the nouse to look at the practice tests, think "Whoops, no idea what cat and whisker boxes are "( I don't think these had been invented when I did GCE maths!!) and do enough self study to pass the tests with ease! I had 25 years between sitting my GCEs and sitting the QTS tests, there were some things I wasn't sure about ( and the ICT test was very odd!) but a bit of revision was all that was needed. If I couldn't do that, I didn't deserve to pass!

[ReallyTired]

This is a really old thread. I hope Florence passed her maths test. The latest trend in schools is "growth mindset". We should not write off someone as a teacher because they failed one test. It might mean the person needs substantial tutoring/ work before attempting the test again. There are tricks for passing multiple choice maths tests and improving mental arthimetic.

I did pass the qts numeracy test first time, but I never completed my pgce. I can give tips on how to do well at maths test. Qts math tests are nothing like school maths and do need to be prepared for even if you have a maths degree.

[fruitpastille]

Eek, whoops!!

[fruitpastille]

Do you know what we say in my class? Not "I can't do it" we say "I can't do it YET". Nor is anyone told that they are just not clever enough if they get something wrong. I don't think adults are different - everyone is capable of improving if they put time and effort into it and I include the OP in this. Get loads of old sats papers, workbooks etc and do half an hour or so daily and keep trying. I've never been great at tests either as my a levels would testify but it has never been an issue in class. Some very fixed mindsets on this thread ;-)

[scissorhands201]

I have read the comments about needing good maths to teach at primary level and that is understandable, but how about those who wish to teach Fine Art at secondary level, why would they need to be speed mathematicians? It is utterly ridiculous, not everyone is geared towards maths and science. When will the Government realise that people are all different?

[mumsneedwine]

Whoops. Just seen how old this is !! Hopefully he's not still taking the test

[mumsneedwine]

Cat and whisker graphs anyone ? I have A Level maths from the 80s and I'd never seen one before I took this test. It is not that the maths is difficult its that the questions are long and fiddly. I did pass first time but then I'm a secondary scientist. The questions are NOT KS2 level. I'm sure your husband is already, but use the practice sessions on the website over and over again as the same type of questions do come up all the time. The mental bit is fast and I suggest he does these practice ones every day to speed up. Good luck to him and I bet he'll make a fantastic teacher

[EcoLady]

Thalinda - this is a VERY old thread. No point advertising here.

[CupcakesHay]

to OP (florence) - I've had several teachign friends who've had to do it twice - most have found they got panicky about the test, and let nerves get the better of them.

Have a look back at the tests you've taken and see why you think you might be having problems - is it the time element or is it a certain area (such as decimals, or area or something).

I'm sure you'll get it next time - and as they say on my course - part of the training is reflecting on where you are going wrong and how to improve it. Better to have these hiccups now before you actually start teaching :)

[DinahRod]

FlorenceofArabia could have taken the test 15 times by now , it's a very old thread.

[Jazmyn]

wow, sorry I havent read the whole thread so if someone else said this I apologise but.....

instead of saying "if you cant do it then you shouldnt be teaching" (or whatever similar things people are saying) how about suggesting learning how to do the maths that's on the paper?!?!

Maths is indeed something some people are more naturally adept in but you can also learn how to do it quickly and smoothly by practice!!!

Good luck!

[mnistooaddictive]

Can I just add that you will ALWAYS have to teach someone who is better than you. I am a good Maths teacher but some of the pupils I have taught have been better mathematicians than me. All Maths teachers will tell you the same. They don't know more skills than me but they have a greater capacity to learn. You have to find a way to make this work. The very rare outstanding pupil will outclass his teacher at whatever subject they specialise in even at primary school. That does not make you a bad teacher.
There is a lot of stuff on the QTS test that is on the current GCSE but wasn't when I did GCSe (20 years ago). This is mainly Stats stuff but if you haven't met it before you can't be expected to understand it.

[bigbrotherslittlesister]

Finding the maths test and maybe maths in general tricky is really no bad thing as a teacher! It helped me to understand the misconceptions the children had and therefore plan for them better, really.
I agree with mnis in saying that practice is the key to it.
I have many friends who didn't pass first or even second time and they are fab teachers...as for the need to be one step ahead of the children...well, thats what planning is for

Good luck op, keep at it, you WILL get there

[aegeansky]

Yes, pisces moon! Like this fellow:

[piscesmoon]

Higher ability DCs are amazingly quick and you have to be one step ahead all the time.
It is such an old thread I can't remember if OP is a primary teacher-if secondary in a different subject I don't think it is important but to teach maths at any age you need it to survive in the classroom.

[aegeansky]

Florence, it's great that you want to be open about failing the tests, but like others here, I'd ask whether you're really considered the implications of going so much against the grain.

You might be in for a bit of a shock with higher ability children, even before year 6, as they may have blisteringly fast mental maths, for example. They will suss you out, and that might be very hard to deal with, depending on what type of school you're at. Some children will tell you openly if they think they are better at maths than you.

Please don't flame me for saying this. You posted the question on a public forum.

[mnistooaddictive]

I am a Maths teacher and like MANY mathematicians my mental arithmetic was never great. My algebra is amazing and I can apply formulas like a genius but numbers - let's face it you don't really do that at degree level! I can do mentalarithmetic now because I have had loads of practice teaching it! I only learnt my tables when I started teaching too! Stick with it, it is a matter of practice.

[lindathewriter]

The QTS Numeracy test is difficult. It's got very little to do with teaching content: it's not a test to show what you can teach in the classroom. There are only 48 minutes in which to do the test, it's online, and includes an audio section. There are copious paragraphs of (often poorly expressed) written English which have to be ploughed through in order to understand the question. I would suggest that those of you who haven't had a go at the test give it a try. I tutor for the QTS Test and I can assure you that tutees who are intelligent and numerate, and who are in all respects excellent teachers, can fail this test.

[happywheezer]

I remember these tests really well. They do prepare you really well for teaching primary and made me think about maths that i hadn't done for years.But it is hard! The pages change so quickly! I did pass first time but there was somebody there who had taken it more than 10 times and she was a mature student like you. Children are taught to do maths in a more logical way than I was ever taught, I'm 35 now, and I had to retrain to think differently. Can you when you go in write down the times table, decimal points, percentages etc. so you can look at it quickly, taking out the thinking time? You don't have to start the test right way and could spend the time doing some revision.

[mummyofexcitedprincesses]

I visited the BBC GCSE revision site a lot in the weeks running up to my QTS tests and found it to be very useful revision. I passed second time and don't know anyone that passed first time- it takes at least one go to get the hang of the test format imo.

[JaneiteIsTrite]

I think I read recently that they are not going to allow people to keep re-doing the tests until they pass: can't remember where though, so not much use.

[ejames100]

If you are not teaching maths why does it matter if you have passed the numeracy test? My daughter did GCSE maths to get onto a pgce course, she is currently teaching her subject of Geography in a secondary school and is liked and respected by both the teachers and pupils. Yet because she hasn't and is struggling to pass the numeracy test she is only being paid as a assistant. It is very disheartening for her and others like her. Just because she isn't a natural a maths does not mean she isn't a brilliant teacher. Also just because some people are able to pass these tests easily does not makethem good teachers. It makes my blood boil! These test show that the government have no faith in the GCSE's and are just another obstivle to stop good teachers being paid their full worth!