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Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Primary education

Did anyone else struggle with the QTS Numeracy test for teachers?

137 replies

FlorenceofArabia · 08/03/2009 12:12

I had no trouble with the Literacy and ICT tests but I have failed the bloody Numeracy several times . I'm a mature student and have always struggled with maths but got my GCSE a few years ago with lots of studying. However, I've done the practice materials and get by but things go to pot when I take the actual tests.

The invigilator told me she has had some students take and fail the Numeracy test over 40 - yes FORTY - times .

Help!

OP posts:

Report

MrsMattie · 09/03/2009 17:25

Oh ignore all these sour faces!OP.

If people fail it 40 times, failing a couple of times is no biggie. I'm sure you will get there in the end and with a positive attitude. Maths is a weak point for lots of people - including lots of fabulous teachers.

Do you give this 'You're obviously not up to it!'-type advice to your students when they fail a test?@all those charming teachers on this thread? Nice.

myredcardigan · 09/03/2009 17:27

Blueeggs, I frequently have student teachers in my classroom. I also, as part of my LMT remit, regularly go into other schools and observe other teachers teaching.

blueeggs · 09/03/2009 17:28

That is not the same thing at all my red cardigan.

myredcardigan · 09/03/2009 17:39

Not the same as what?
I have to observe the students, give them feedback and sometimes grade them according to the criteria given to me by their college. So I'm aware of the level they should be at.

Most are nervous and unsure at the start. A lot of the students are very unfamiliar with the programmes of study and what they should be doing. None of this is a problem. A lack of basic academic skills would be.

piscesmoon · 09/03/2009 17:44

I don't see what age has to do with it-I work a lot with students and very young teachers and learn a lot from them.
You asked if anyone else was struggling so perhaps I shouldn't have answered, but I really don't think that you should be struggling. If you are then you should be spending time doing maths questions every day so that you speed up and are familiar with them.
If you read back through the thread you will see that one person has said that their secondary English teacher DH struggled (not a problem as he didn't need it), someone else is worried, a reception teacher took 3 goes, one person thinks it might be the timing and another thinks it might be the format. If it is the timing or the format you need to find a way to cope because you need to be fast in the class room and the format of things rarely suits everyone.
You may well be a really good teacher, I wasn't questioning it, but I think you need to put the maths as a priority.
I am just being truthful to say that I wouldn't want my DCs taught maths by someone who hasn't passed a basic test on everyday problems when I know that lots of 10 and 11 yr olds could pass the test, having never seen it before.

foxytocin · 09/03/2009 18:01

I am sure this thread has moved all over the place dissing teachers by now but anyways, if the OP is still reading....

Sometimes it is the familiarity of doing something that makes you 'pass' it. If you are not fluent in doing something a one off event like this can throw a person. (ie you haven't done maths for years and only recently took it up again while a 14 yo would find the test easy because he does maths 2 dys a week for yonks by now) Keep doing practice exercises in say, Yr 9 Sats maths revision guide to boost your confidence?

I am still amazed some people have taken it 40 times.

blueeggs · 09/03/2009 18:30

mrc - It is not the same as actually being responsible for the training of teachers. I have also had students in my classroom but as you will know they are not being trained by the classroom teacher. The training also consists of may hours in lectures.
The op has GCSE maths so doesn't have a lack of basic skills.

blueeggs · 09/03/2009 18:32

many hours in lectures

twinsetandpearls · 09/03/2009 18:55

Can you not get someone who is a maths specialist from your training colllege to help you? I teach secondary and know that one of our maths teachers used to provide coaching for students. It is practice and perhaps confidence. I grew up thinking I was bad at maths as my grandad was a mathematician and my mum was a whizz with numbers and so I lacked confidence and never took the full a level. When I did my pschology degree I had to to a lot of stats and thought I cant do this as I am rubbish with numbers but actually discovered I am very good at maths. Perhaps you need to find a way of increasing your confidence.

I think at some point tbough if you cannot do it you perhaps need to think is this the job for me? As a teacher you have to represent a level of intelligence to your pupils so they can look up to you. I teach RE but often use my maths, I worked up to a course that was between a gcse and a level but perhaps I am showing my age. I also have a year 10 tutor group whom I am currently running aftet school coaching sessions for and maths is an area that a lot of them are struggling with. Next week I am working with on of my top set boys on his maths, this weekend I am going over my maths on Saturday to ensure I can help him. While you may not teach secondary it is important that you can teach the brightest students in your school.

FlorenceofArabia · 09/03/2009 20:54

"I think at some point tbough if you cannot do it you perhaps need to think is this the job for me?"

Well, I think I'll need to fail it more than a couple of times before I get to that stage . Yes, this is the job for me - and thanks to those who gave positive comments

OP posts:

twinsetandpearls · 09/03/2009 21:32

I did give positive commments.

belladonna79 · 10/03/2009 00:19

Twinset your posts were well balanced and did give positive comments, its just pretty clear that FoA KNOWS deep down she might not be up to teaching juniors, shes lashing out because she can't or won't accept she may not be clever enough. As I said before she should have gone to a student/teacher message board if she wanted sympathy.

TeenyTinyToria · 10/03/2009 01:54

I got 22/28 for the maths, and full marks for the ICT - got bored with the literacy cos it took ages. Not bad for someone who's never been to school

Seriously though, the mental arithmetic is something that really fries my brain, but as you can write notes, anyone who can't pass it quite easily probably wouldn't be able to handle teaching maths.

FlorenceofArabia · 10/03/2009 05:02

What a nasty post, belladonna. I've not lashed out at anyone - just answered back at those who are trying, unsuccessfully, to belittle me and my endeavours to become a primary school teacher.

Fortunately, neither those who are training me, nor the TDA or GTC agree with your assessment .

Why should I go to a student/teacher board? I'm a mum, I thought there might be other mums on here who are studying to be teachers, unfortunately my OP attracted spiteful comments from spiteful teachers as well as some kind messages.

Anyway, I took the test last night for the third time. Failed by ONE flippin' point! It's clearly nerves or a mental block because I'm passing all the practice tests. Will re-take on Thursday and will hopefully pass - if not I'll retake ... and retake

OP posts:

scienceteacher · 10/03/2009 05:11

Good luck on Thursday, Florence

foxytocin · 10/03/2009 05:13

a lovely, very intelligent, very good student teacher at my school took one of these tests 7 times before passing. we knew she would do it and showed her a lot of camaraderie and good humour about it.

it was the english one and she spoke fluent english but it is her second language.

FlorenceofArabia · 10/03/2009 05:28

Thanks, scienceteacher!

Foxytocin - cameraderie and good humour is what I was looking for here . Glad you and your fellow teachers were supportive of your student.

OP posts:

purits · 10/03/2009 08:27

"It's clearly nerves or a mental block because I'm passing all the practice tests"

If you were someone with a 'backroom' job who was good at day-to-day tasks but froze in an exam, I would be sympathetic. However, a teacher is effectively on trial all the time and has to have the mental agility to think on their feet. If a particularly bright child throws a tricky question at you, will you be able to cope?
Unfortunately I have known a lot of children who have suffered at KS2 from poor teachers who have become defensive and unsupportive due to their embarrassment at being outsmarted in Maths by a child. I am amazed at the number of children who give up on Maths at higher levels due to teacher hostility.
TS&P gave a very good response to your problem - whilst you are talking to the training college about help for yourself, please also speak to them about tactics for helping the Gifted mathematicians in your charge.

savoycabbage · 10/03/2009 08:32

Well said Purists.

FlorenceofArabia · 10/03/2009 08:37

Oh God, purits - are you still here?

OP posts:

thirdname · 10/03/2009 10:33

My goodness, you are allowed to use pen and paper as well?!
Hm, I was already worried about the education of my children, now I'm getting even more worried. I felt guilty that I kept telling my son that teachers sometimes make mistakes, now I don't feel guilty anymore.
Yes, I agree passing the test doesn't make you a good teacher (I did pass the test paper but would be a terrible teacher) but if after several attempts you still fail....

TeenyTinyToria · 10/03/2009 13:09

Agree, thirdname - the difficult part of mental arithmetic is holding all those figures in your head and doing fast calculation. If you can write it down, the calculations themselves are so simple that you really shouldn't be struggling. Especially not with a Maths GCSE.

In the classroom, if a pupil asks you to explain something, you need to be confident in answering them, not struggling to work out the maths yourself. At least, I wouldn't feel comfortable if I was struggling to teach a Maths class.

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juuule · 10/03/2009 13:11

How is it mental maths if you can jot things down? I thought the point of mental maths was that you did it in your head (mentally).

myredcardigan · 10/03/2009 13:37

Good come back in that last post, FoA! Every inch the non-bullying, articulate role model you claim to be!

foxytocin · 10/03/2009 13:52

I am certainly amazed at the bitchiness of some of the 'professionals' on here. Of the critical parents on this thread who are not teachers, well, meh, they will always be with us. It comes with the territory. But where is the professional integrity of those who are trying to claim some kind of high ground?

I took those tests the year they were first started. I failed the ICT one though it was the was the most laughable piece of piss I had ever seen in a long time and by far the easiest of the 3. How I failed it? I still don't know so I had a good laugh at myself.

Nothing that were in any of those tests had any bearing on my ability as a teacher and never will.

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