If you're considering a small school for your dc....

[loler]

My dd (yr1) goes to the small local primary (about 90 Children) - I thought this was a great school as it was so small all the children get lots of attention and everyone knows each other.

However, dd isn't really into academic stuff (does it because she has to and is about average - but that's a whole other thread). Sports seem to be her thing and she's pretty good and anything she's tried. Not sure where this comes from as DH and I were both very geeky!

Small school = lack of children to make up teams. And also lack of children for after school clubs. The one sports club that she goes to is shutting due to lack of support - to make things worse her class is mainly very girly girls who don't like getting dirty.

OK feel a bit better and rant over - just wanted to have a moan and couldn't think of who to do it too!

My DCs both went to a village school of around 60 children. DS2 is in year six.
You have highlighted one of the very few drawbacks of such small schools. There is a shortage of numbers for team games but this can be overcome by grouping with other small schools. I think a lot depends on the head. Our old head was keen on sport and there were often little tournaments with neighbouring schools, plus lots of after school sport. Unfortunately the new head isn't interested in sport and does the bare minimum.
Apart from this I have nothing but positive experiences with the small school - small classes, family atmosphere, high staff/pupil ratio. The transition from primary to secondary was a worry but DS1 sailed through.

My DD goes to a small primary school too (90 in school). But at ours it all seems to work very well. They do not seem to have any problems with after shool clubs or sports teams stopping; sport is pushed a lot though as are lots of the "enrichment" type activities.

For some activities the school works with the local boy's school too which helps.

I guess it depends on the way the school is managed regarding these matters.

My daughter suffered academically at a small school - only 14 in her year group. She was the only girl who went to grammar school. I was told she was anti-social because she didn't make friends easily. Turns out she just didn't get on with anyone. Still G and T in Y 10 of her selective school, but has loads of friends because there are people she has stuff in common with.
As a teacher and parent, 25 per year group would be the least I was happy with.

I'm another parent who would never entertain using a very small school again, I've just moved my daughter (yr2) from a tiny school 50 pupils to a school with 130 ish pupils.

She was just one of two girls in her class (9/10 boys)...girls didn;t get on very different...and my dd is an only child living in a tiny village so friendship at school is very important...even though she goes to rainbows and other clubs.

Small schools especailly with mixed yr grouo classes can only really cope with the average child ...you can imagine the difficulty there must be in trying to teach 2 yr groups with children from below average to above average in each yr (effectively 6 levels)...they also don;t have the resources that bigger schools have due to funding.

It's funny because I was really pleased that my daughter was going to a small school ....I didn;t see all the negative aspects at that time.....the love has been brilliant ...the resources at her new school are excellent, she also gets to do Tennis & Gymnastics.

I'd recommend anyone looking at a small school to do proper research into class size, mix resources etc....very important.

My dds have been at 3 primaries, 180 children, then 320, then the current small village school with 100 children.. I was more in favour of bigger schools and only moved them to a smaller one reluctantly due to moving to a village. But actually I've been pleasantly surprised. I do slightly regret the better sports facilities in teh bigger schools - our biggest school had a swimming pool and lessons which we liked. But our little school does seem capable of providing all the things people say on this thread their small schools lack. The school makes a big effort to cater for the more able children in various areas. One of my dds is ahead of her peers academically, she works with the top group of the year above, which is an advantage of mixed age classes.

But really, what they lack occasionally in range of facilities, they gain in being in a very friendly relaxed environment, with most of their schoolmates living nearby, it made the dds very much part of their local community and they love that. So I'm more a fan of small village schools than I'd have expected to be, seeing my dds thriving in it at least as much as they did in the bigger schools.

I was originally sceptical about mixed year groups. So much so that I enrolled DS1 originally in a nearby larger school. We are lucky in having a choice of very good primaries here.
However, I had the opportunity before he started to observe his new "class" of 30 children in a nursery class.
I was horrified.
Many of the children could barely speak correctly let alone hold a pencil, and this was a school in a relatively priveledged area. One child was so disruptive that I observed all 5 staff focusing their attention on this one child for a large percentage of the session.I feared my quiet, well behaved , bright child would be lost among the sheer numbers and I went back to the tiny village school where he was one of an intake of 5 to reception.
The most they ever had in a mixed year group was 15, very often with a teacher and classroom assisstant, not to mention lots of willing parent volunteers.Both my children have thrived there and I've never regretted the choice.

Oops spelling. Should preview.

must depend on school, dc have afterschool football, gymnastics, netball, ballgames, x country....
also, academic more able children join higher classes and less able lower classes with ease, as they know each other and teachers so well.

Small school here, 50 ish children.

I think it is foolish to quote a minimum number of students you require in your Childs class. Each school is individual and I don't dispute that there may be many small schools which might not be able to cater for different ability levels well. But I have seen many classes of 30 children coping with one teacher and a teaching assistant, where the ability level does vary wildly and they do struggle. Especially in those schools that have a staggered intake that may have one child in reception having had two terms additional teaching before another summer born child even begins. I just don?t think you can generalise at all. It?s like saying that classes of 30 are too big to teach effectively, (which actually in my experience is more representative of the consensus of the general public)

I would rather have a smaller mixed class where potential problems (or those children who are excelling) can be spotted much easier. With effective teaching (in our school we have a teacher, and a teaching assistant plus volunteers for reading etc) different levels can be catered for very well. Additionally the pastoral care can be MUCH better in a smaller school.

Funding can be another misconception, our school gets a larger budget allocation from county, pro rata, than some of the larger schools in the area and actually have to try really spend hard to prevent the money being clawed back because we are so well equipped.

Sports and extracurricular activities can suffer but again can be minimised by proper management and I do agree girls especially can suffer within a smaller peer group.

Lottysmum, I love that you call a school with 50 children tiny. DS1's school has 30 pupils. That is tiny.

I do have worries about such a small school but they are doing a good job of pushing him academically so far, so I will see how things go

I'm just considering this very question -
school of a hundred pupils (in four classes)
or school of over 400 (14 classes)?

Both schools seem good. DS is young for year group, DD is old, so perhaps mixed age classes will give them both some time in the midle as well as the extremes?

The bigger school does have better sports and music facilities but is that what school is really for?

What's small though? Ours - the local, state, catchment, nearest, village school, 2 mins up the hill - is as small as it can be and still have a full class in each year. c.210 pupils. 30 in each year, Rec to Y6. Give or take.

It's popular and over-subscribed, so it can't be any smaller! But it doesn't have space to be any bigger.

I would think under 50 is pretty small. Ours is about 100 counting all the children including the 3 yrs olds in nursery which seems about average for 'larger' schools in our area.
I would have thought anything with more than one class intake per year was large.
Both have advantages - I have known people struggle with larger schools as children get moved around classes and separated from their friends. Equally in smaller schools they may not find many children with similar interests esp if they are quiet, shy etc. So its probably 6 of one & half a dozen of the other . . . I would pick the school I liked better regardless of size.

We have about 60 children at our school and have found teh sporting opportunities better at this school than the large school (350 pupils) we used to be at.
They play 5 a side football , netball,tennis,tag rugby,cricket and tennis against other village primaries in our cluster and have a joint cross-country competition.i would say that teh sports is much better because everyone gets the chance to participate.As for swimming all the tr groups from Y2 onwards go swimming at teh nearby school.
.We have after school clubs in sport,art , newspaper,chess,gardening ,karate,choir and recorders (most are oversubscribed).
I think academically its much more flexible too as chilsdren are grouped more by ability than by age.We have on average over 80 % passing the 11+
The only downside is the friendship issue -Less of a mix of personalities can be a problem sometimes , but again children play a lot more across the age groups than they did at teh big school.

there's under 100 children at my boys school. They've got -
gardening club
choir
golf club
basketball club
knitting club
poetry workshops
cross country running club
'powerwalking'
tag rugby
football
pottery
brass band and other music classes
tai kwando (sp?)
Then there's the
movie nights
pie and pea suppers
quiz nights
discos....

and that's just what I can remember off the top of my head.

So I would say that it's not necessarily because it's a small school, but because they are not putting the effort in!

Well to give the other side of the coin we are about to move ds2 from large prep school (>400 boys) with excellent sport and swimming facilties to smaller school with less facilities. Why? Because the best boys in each year get into the squads and get loads of extra training and practice, but if you don't make the squads, there is nothing extra at all. There is still good games provision but not afterschool provision for those with a passion for a particular sport. Squad places tend to go to those who are oldest in the year, so no hope for the summer-born boys.

OMG you are talking about small schools the small school near us has 18 in the infants and 13 in the Juniors now that is small.

Amusing how diferent people view a "small" school.

when my dd1 started school we lived in Greater London and she went to a small school of 180 students.. (Infant school) that was the smalles school in the area (1 other same size) and I several times had parents say to me oh your so lucky she is in such a small school.

then we moved and they are now in a school of 101 students.. primary school and it is tiny 4 class rooms 2 classes together no year has over 15 students, the school is 2 buildings 1 with 2 class rooms and toilets the other with 3 small offices 2 class rooms and a small libary plus the "hall" (it gets used for lunch pe assembly and music lessons)

it is a small school for where we live (we are now 1 hour train from London so again we are not living very far out in the country) and I have had some very possitive experiences in how they have dealt with my brainy one (ds now in year 2 and on year 4 math) how they have dealt with dd1 (whom has thrived in this school) and how they have dealt with dd3 (reception) whom just adores it. dd2 however whom is dyslexic has really floundered there and we are currently having grave concerns about her and the school has not stepped up to deal with it. I am praying that when she next term comes up to the teacher her older sister has (He teaches year 5 and 6 and is everything you want in a primary school teacher) they have several PE things and the football team is in a round thing with all the other local schools (whom are all bigger than the one the children are in) and they have won the last 3 years..

All in all I have found it a good experience to have my children in a small school but I have concerns in how they can deal with my dd2 very real issues and at th emoment I am not discounting home scholing her for a period. it is not a route I wish to go down however I havent felt that the school has responded well to her needs. However having said that the school she strated out in (the infant 180) managed that badly that she actually was making herself sick in the morning to not go to school so I am not sure if this is a large school issue or simply a weakness in the school systems that are so geared towards accademic success that if your child is not that way inclined it gets stuck in this system.

dd1 and dd2 go to a tiny school, 34 kids in total, dd1 is very sporty and is a big fish in a small pond and has opportunities to do sport that she would never have in a larger school. As she is less academic this has been a real boon to her, even with this small number of pupils we have never experienced the problems you describe. The school takes part in lots of inter school events and take part in lots of activities. We share teaching specialists with lots of other schools which means the kids try a huge variety of sports.