Letter from school saying Dogs at the school gates are scaring younger children.....

[DrNortherner]

It is reminding us that dogs sniffing at young kids is scary and that a few parents have complained. It says if you must bring your dog, do not leave it tied up at the gate.

Now as a dog owner, who walks to school with my dog I can't help but feel a bit miffed about this.

Are they suggessting we should leave our dogs at home?

Are these parents who have complained over reacting slightly?

All of the dogs I see at school are much loved family pets and are used to young kids. No harm has ever been done, no barking no nothing. Maybe a bit of sniffing, but hey, isn't that what dogs do? Shouldn't these parents be teaching their kids to walk on by confidently and ignore said dog if they are a little scared rather than complaining that the dogs are actually there?

Or do I need a little bit of prospective here. Interested to hear points of view from all, especially non dog owners.

Thanks.

I just thought of a way to have dogs, but not involve others who didn't choose to have a dog.

A Dog Buggy!

They couldn't bite then unless approached. They couldn't jump up on people. They could shit in the buggy or into a nappy. Dogs could stay in a buggy until they were mature enough to know the difference between someone who wants to be slobbered over/pushed to the ground and someone who doesn't.

They could come in all sorts of colors just like baby buggies.

We'd probably have to have a small park in each area for dogs only. No children and no adults unaccompanied by a dog. Let's face it we don't let toddlers run wild in the street for exercise and certainly not with no nappy on.

My DD (2) is absolutely terrified at dogs. (And both sets of grandparents have dogs so it's not for want of being round them). If a dog is tied up outside the school gates at pick up time she refuses to go in. I will then have to coax for 5 minutes and carry her in. This is just about doable on the way in, but on the way out when we also have DS and his various bags, water bottles, miscellaneous other objects and are in a queue of people going out it is a total PITA.

More than once DD has sat down inside the school playground in tears and we've had to wait for the dog owner to move their dog before DD would get up.

She has a genuine fear and in a busy situation such as school pickup it is very hard to manage sensitively.

I would be very happy for my DS's school to send out a "no dogs by gate" letter. If you must bring a dog on the school run don't tie it up where a child has no option but to walk past it.

My daughter is terrified of dogs. I think that having dogs around help her to get used to them, but they need to be away from the school gate so she can get in and they have to not sniff her. So far at our school this has been the case and she is gradually becomming more relaxed.

Onager - that is such a great post

Cars are dangerous things. Before we are allowed to drive one, we have to take lessons and pass a test.

I wonder how many dog owners actually train their dog properly. By that I don't just mean the sit, stay, lie-down, paw. I mean the full-blown works that would be expected at a dog obedience class. It is wonderful to see a perfectly obedient dog. They are never any cause for concern. But if your dog jumps up at people, or doesn't sit quietly by your side when you tell it to then it is not properly trained and the owner is irresponsible IMO.

Our school has banned dogs. If anyone HAS to bring one they have to leave it tied up on the railings at the end of the car park or keep it in their car.
I'm not a dog owner but if i did have one, i would leave it at home as i'm only away for 30 mins at the most. If it needs a walk do it before or after the school run.

Sorry to bring this up again but had to come back and answer a few points.

Thanks for the comments, it has made me think differently. If I can avoid taking my dog to school in future, I will, however, if I need to I will of course stay with him, which I always do anyway.

Voluptuagoodshag, I must answer your point of how an untrained animal has an irresponsible owner. Of course, if an owner chooses not to train their dog and allows it to behave badly then yes, this is of course irresponsible. But do not assume this is always the case. It takes time to train a dog, it does not just happen overnight - it's quite a lengthy process, that involves socialising the dog well.

FWIW, I always pick up my dogs poo, I too hate to see it on the street/at the park. It's gross and there is no excuse.

I know a lot has been said already. I have no problem with one or two well behaved dogs at the school gates (as long as owners are with them.) I have three DC and one is scared of dogs and we are working on this.

However at our school this morning I counted 30 dogs tied up at the gates (and only 1 owner). Intimidating even for dog friendly adults.

I never thought I would do this, but I am considering asking the headmaster to ban dogs as it is just too much. It is hard enough getting a 4 year old into school as it is, without this added stress in the morning. In the evenings I have had to wait in the playground for 50 minutes until the number of dogs was below 5.

I know its convenient to combine the school run with dog walking but there has to be some sort of limit. I know my children have to become used to dogs - but 30 in one go - it is only making things impossible.

I have no objection to dogs brought to school (in fact, I like to see them), but if dog owners tied them up away from the gates and not in a place where children had to squeeze past them, then I am sure that would reassure a lot of parents.

I am not personally worried by dogs- I like meeting them and so do both dc's. But I do feel a bit cynical about the beloved-family-pet-wouldn't-possibly-bite-and-never-jumps up. That was just what the owner said the second before the dog got ds in the leg. And I am sure she believed it. Fortunately, ds did not go on to develop a dog phobia- but another child might have done.

Away from the school gates would be my answer.

YABU, I love dogs, my kids love dogs, but my Dd1 is allergy to dogs and we had to rehome our dog due to her allergy. She loved dogs too, until one jumped at her and caught her face which then came out in a nasty rash.

Sorry DrN but YABU. DT1 is petrified of dogs, DT2 would eat one. I haven't brought them up to be scared of them but that's the way it is.

Imagine something the size of a bear sniffing at you. Not such a great idea huh? I have to hold DT1's hand tight when we pass dogs because she could easily bolt into the road. One of the things that pisses me off is huge hounds (and little nippy ones) tied at the gate she has to walk through each day.

So, YABU.

Just move the dogs away from the gate!

Our school has banned dogs from the playground too and asks that those that come are tied up away from the gates or left in the car (obviously not for a long time in searing heat but that's the owners call). This was after a 'never hurt anybody, salt of the earth family pet' attacked one of the students requiring 30 stitches and hospitalization and she was comfortable around dogs - 6 of their own and the vets daughter. As a result many of the children who witnessed the attack are now petrified.

My dh's dd1 had her nose bitten off by a smallish dog whose owner said had just said not 2 minutes before (when asked by dh) that the dog was fine with kids. This wasn't even a stranger...it was a friend of dh's. And his dd was a toddler at the time whose only action was to toddle towards the dog. Understandably since then (18 years ago) dh has always been wary around dogs and never ever ever takes a stranger's word as to whether their dog (no matter how small and friendly looking) is safe around kids. All his kids since then were brought up to be wary of dogs. When they were young this translated as fear and as they got older and wiser they were able to just be wary. I am amazed at how often I go to the park with the kids and people let pitbulls and other similar breeds loose in the kids playground area without a leash.
Because of this, I would not walk my kids past an unknown tied up dog. And I would certainly complain to the school if this was happening at my children's school.

Our school in England had the school gate thing, and there would often be two or three dogs outside. A bit of a squeeze at times. The entrance was also the path to a local path, so people would often be waling along with a dog or two. Personally I think it would have been better to let the dogs in the playground with their owners, as then they would have been under contol, and available for petting by those children who wanted to, and away from the families that didn't like them.

In the US the school just had an open space in front of it, so there were no restrictions, and all dogs had a little circle of adoring children. Several exits, so no problems for the phobic.

Our new school doesn't have the same parent pick up policy, so home time is much more relaxed, and less scrum like. Mostly the kids either walk home or are picked up by car (and no waiting around for handover, so parents generally don't get out). At the moment it's too cold for lots of dogs, but I am sure there will be plenty in the summer. Most dogs are loose in yards here - you often bump into them in the street.

The dogs at the school gate problem really depends on the space at the exit and how busy it is. if a school has a playground big enough maybe it could have a "dog zone"?Personally I would rather a dog was with an owner than left tied up. A dog left alone with other dogs and passed by excited children is likely to become stressed and more likely then to bark/growl/bite. Also if the dog is with its owner you can ask the the owner to pick up the dog/stand in front of it if your child is scared. I agree dogs need to be socialised and trained but school pick up is not the time for this! Learner drivers don't drive on the motorway. Take your dog to parks where children can approach if they want or stay at a distance. It is all a matter of common sense. When I was young my parents had rescue dogs, one of which whilst a lovely family pet, would growl and bark if approached by a strange child (she had been mistreated in the past by children). So my mother never took her to school and always steered clear of unaccompanied children in parks.

At DCs' old school (nursery to y2) the headmistress used to bring her dog into school. the children loved her and it was a calm introduction to dogs for many.

YABU! Imagine a beast almost your size with big teeth, sniffing and roaring at you!!!! That's how dogs seem to little children...
I hate and am totally terrified of dogs, was attacked by a boxer when 12 years old, a beloved prize winning pet of family friends.
I would feel uncomfortable walking past a pack of dogs, tied to the gate, never mind the ones that are not on lead!
Not everybody likes dogs and wishes to be anywhere near them.

Last week I was walking out of school carrying my 5 mth old baby and with 5 yr old and a 2 yr old with a pit bull/ Staffie behind us on a lead.i don't know the difference but I know pit bulls are dangerous and staffies are not exactly safe so I was really annoyed and upset. this man walked his dog into the school playground before this when the school has asked people NOT to bring dogs into playground.I just don't trust that type of dog and bringing them into a playground full of kids running around is, to my mind, a recipe for disaster. I think that type of dog shldn'tbe brought on school pick ups at all.I don't care what the owner thinks - what if my child was permanently disfigured by one of those ugly mutts?

Another thng that annoys me is people who park outside the school gates with their car engines running so everyone has to walk thro their car engine smoke (inc my baby) to get into school.
I have a car and I never do that. I don't even park right outside the school gates as I find there are too many children and therefore not safe to be driving past them all

I love dogs and was brought up with them, but I don't think the school gate is a good place for them to be tied up. It's often a stressful enough place for children and parents, without having to run the gamut of anxious dogs straining at their leads looking for their owners.

Despite my own background with animals, I've always encouraged our kids to be cautious when approaching dogs, as you can never trust any animal 100%.

DS is terrified of dogs after a neighbour of ours left their garden gate open and a young dog they were looking after bounced over and jumped into his pushchair. He wasn't physically hurt but, not surprisingly, he was terrified by the experience.

Going back to the school scenario, one woman at our school tied her dog up next to a pushchair, went off to collect her child, and while she was gone the dog managed to wrap its long lead around the pushchair handles and pull it over. Fortunately the baby was strapped in and someone managed to grab the pushchair very quickly, but the outcome could have been very different.

I am not a dog lover. However, I have nothing against a well controlled trained dog being taken along on the school run. What I dislike is when the owners cannot (or do not) control the dogs. Some people let there dogs jump up or pull towards toddlers and young children that are smaller than the dog. No wonder they are scared.

You often see owners trying to restrain their dog - who obviously too strong for them to control.