So is it normal that chldren are not allowed to eat jam sandwhiches for lunch?

[LynetteScavo]

For DS's luch today I packed;

Tuna Sandwhich

Carrot sticks & homous,

Yougurt

A very small jam sandwhich with the crusts cut off.

I've never put in a jam sandwhich before, but have put in the odd digestive biscuit or mince pie.

DS tells me he wasn't allowed to eat the jam sandwhich, as they are banned, but they are allowed kitkats, he tells me. (no chance mate! )

So is this normal - are jam sanwhiches the work of the devil, even if they are organic bread with jam made by Granny?

never heard of jam sandwich ban but my ds school has a fair few rules .. no sweets fine no pop fine but i was shocked when he came home and told me he got in trouble beause he had mushrooms in his lunch box ( he loves them raw) when i asked at the school they said its because they don't know whot type they are ...if i wasn't so angry think would of coolapsed with laughter and no am not taking the piss it since been sorted and decided that it was stupid rule and he is able to take them in lol

In an ideal world my DD would have a ham salad sandwich, hoummus and carrot sticks, some cheese and some fruit and a piece of homemade flapjack in her lunchbox. It is as we all know not an ideal world.

She is fairly fussy. She has a good breakfast and has a balanced hot meal everynight (always containing at least two veg)

In her box she has brown wraps with ham or marmite. Some whole almonds and a frube. She has a smoothie to drink. Sometimes she might have a couple of mini dsausages, sometimes some crisps. She always has a treat like a mini choc bar, cake or biscuit. She does not like cheese or lwttuve or cucumber or tomatoes or grapes or apple. She does not like flapjack or hoummus.Or tuna.

I have given her ppots of couscous or pasta with cooked carrots and peas in , which she does like. But the school do not. This is because they eat their lunch at their desk in the classroom and it is messy (angry). The school sent this message through my DD who was upset at being told off. I went in and complained.They agreed it was a healthy option and it was not my DD fault that they had to eat their linch in the enviroment provided.

I also have an issue with how long they get to eat it! She is always saying she didn't have time to finish!

Absolutely crackers.

We used to have a balanced lunchbox (sandwich, crisps (gasp), apple, yoghurt, choccy biscuit or homemade flapjack, etc. I needed the food to get through the afternoon.

I'm now a healthy size 10 who enjoys exercise, eats 5 portions of fruit a day and exercises but who also likes a little chocolate.

Whatever happened to moderation?

As a teacher my old school had a few rules which were OTT - no cake or fruit jiuce, for example.

So if I bake with my child (lovely family activity), I can't send her in with a wholesome flapjack for her lunch, yet some additive packed plastic bread's ok? Mad.

Hasn't it recently been published that it's not sugar which makes children hyperactive - it's E numbers!

Nanny state or what? Don't tell me what to pack for my child! (Apart from obviously the Mars Bar rule). Grrrr.

I've read through all the posts today and am amazed that almost every one blames the teachers in the schools!

These rules are not made by the teachers - they either come from senior management within the school or directly from the education authority in which your school is located and are based on government inititatives.

Teachers have no say in these rules yet we are expected to blindly enforce them whether we agree with them or not, AND we are placed in the firing line by having to take all the complaints from parents when they are unhappy about them.

Give teachers a break and complain to the people who actually make these decisions in the first place - teachers have no power to do anything about them anyway and have to do as we are told just like the pupils!

No the LEA's don't make the rules about what's allowed in individual lunch boxes, Daisy. They provide guidelines about Healthy Schools, how those guidelines are interpreted is left up to the schools. And some of them are interpreting the guidelines in really bizarre ways.

Hey LittleBella,

You in England?? Cause up here in Scotland we don't get any input into these decisions at all - its only at senior managment level or above.

at dd's school we were asked to comment on a healthy lunchbox initiative following the rules to the letter her lunchbox is unhealthy she is lactose intolerant so today's contained some slices of ham, 7 cherry tomatoes, cucumber, 2 satsumas, a banana, and a carton of fresh apple juice

apparently she should have carbohydrates e.g. bread or pasta even though she won't eat cold pasta and never eats bread i ensure she has enough carbs at home, some calcium, she has milk at home with calcium supplement if needs be as she has rice milk

Thank goodness our school doesn't have a jam sarnie ban as there have been times when that has got us through the whole packed lunch thing. ds1 is sensitive to dairy, bit of an odd one because he can take it if present in crips or ice cream but not the milk, cheese, yogurt due to the difference in protein which will vary if it hasn't been heat treated.

Anyway, there are times when he goes off meat and a jam sandwich does the trick of getting to him to eat something. He eats egg but in a school lunch box I just think of the smell when it would come out! I always pop some salad type things in too, plus some fruit and OJ. There are no bans but we did get a sheet suggesting things in moderation, which I think is acceptable.

Yes I'm in England

I don't know who makes the rules, I would presume tht it would be done by senior mgmt, but that there might be some conusltation with parents, governors etc. Could be wrong though. It definitely isn't the LEA, they're there to advise/ guide, not to send out sugar fatwas!

The school my children attend was actually recently in the newspapers because of school dinners/breakfast club and this whole "what is banned and what isn't"

Some of the parents were angry because marmite has been banned, which is apparently too high in salt....yet Jam IS allowed as is gravy...made with granules...which is very high in salt!...the world has gone mad if you ask me!

What irritates me is the pudding.'What did you have for hot school dinners today ds?''xxx and chocolate cake''xxx and custard and some thing with raisins''xxx and biscuits''xxx and ice cream'

Yes, funny how it's OK to have high fat, high sugar stuff as part of a balanced meal when it's provided by Scolarest, but not when it's provided by parents.

Children need fats and sugars.
Mummies and Daddies need civil liberties.
Jam sandwiches make the world go round!

my ds whos 7 has jam only thing he eats on wholemeal bread + fruit
he has a serious rare genetic disorder and his school is fantastic in they let him eat what he wants plus food and milkshakes for break,they store it in the fridge and give it to him as and when
they had an assembly to explain why he was different so there were no rows or why does charlie have it and not us
i agree the teachers do not set the rules as such but apply what they have been told
but if theres serious medical reasons they are lenient and understand

I thought about this thread last week when dd2 and ds's school did jam and toast for the foundation children at mid-morning break

Daisy34 - the "senior management" at our ds' primary school (in Glasgow) are the teacher: I don't know of any primary schools (don't yet have expreience of secondaries) where the management teams aren't teachers.

I know our school is unusual in that both the head and the depute do actually spend a surprisingly high proportion of thier time teaching, but the other two (actually three: two of them are job-share) members of the senior management team are standard class room teachers, with a P1 and and P7 class each.

And anyway, Parent Councils nowadays could and should have a major input into any "rules" that a school might choose to impose on lunch boxes.

As it happens, our school doesn't have any rules, except a request not to have any nuts.

I think that part of the problem is that schools are often very poor at consultation, or maybe they are poor at publicising their consultations. So rules often do seem arbitrary, and parents wonder where it is all coming from. As parents we also have a tendency to think about how we think things were when we were children, and think changes are unnecessary.

The healthy schools policies originate from health (ie PCTs), not LEAs, and are one of the ways that areas (usually partnerships of all the agencies that have contact with children, including leisure services, schools etc) are trying to do something about the growth in obesity among children. The idea is that the best place to target children is at school, because all children go to school, so you catch everyone, and it is cheap.

There is a lot of evidence that a sizable number of children have very unhealthy diets, and that encouraging one healthy meal is therefore beneficial, and one idea is that if children get used to eating more healthily they will then request healthier food at home. I do agree that school dinners have a long way to go before they are fit for purpose (ie taste nice, sufficient volume for all the children and healthy too). From the posts here a lot of schools have a way to go to in getting their approaches right, but blanket bans are much much easier to bring in than have every lunch box examined for balance. A blanket approach is also easier in order not to single out children, who obviously have more of a need for a balanced diet (ie the over weight ones).

It is interesting that when I was in the States, where the obesity problem is much worse the school dinners (which were very cheap) were much less healthy, ice cream and sweets were always on sale, and the Peanut butter and jam sandwich was always on offer to those who didn't like the school dinner. There was also minimal play time. Now I am in Canada there are no school dinners provided, and the emphasis is very much on physical play.

Prettybird,

Yes your senior management are teachers but do they consult the rest of the non promoted teachers in their decisions and base their rules on the majority vote? This certainly doesn't happen in my school.

My original point is - parents contact the staff who actually make these decisions if you are unhappy - parental complaints are taken much more seriously and have more weight if they are directed to the right person as opposed to being directed to the ordinary classroom teacher who is more limited!

Daisy34 - the honest answer is I don't know. But having been in and out the school a lot and knowing a lot of the teachers there, I know that there is a culture of consultation, even if it might not go as far as "taking a vote" on all decisions. At the ned of the day "management", in whatever field, is responsible for making decisions and they are not always necessarily the popular ones even if they are the right ones in the long term.

In this case, any policy with regard to lunchboxes is definitely something that the school would consult with the Parent Council on - and there are a number of our teachers on our Parent Council (not all of them in promoted posts - just those that wanted to be one the Parent Council) so should it have come to a vote (and to date, nothing ever has), they would have been able to vote on it.

Maybe we are just fortunate in having a school where parent and teacher involvement is taken seriously.

i have just had jam sandwiches for my lunch. very nice they were too.

thats prob not very relevant.

Send what you like in a lunchbox. If it does not contain nuts it's fine. And if they don't have any kids with nut allergies at the school in question (which is unlikely I guess) nuts are also fine. I can understand them banning fizzy drinks and chocolate as they can be really messy but there is no sense in banning jam sandwiches. Write a note saying you do not consider a jam sandwich to be unhealthy on occasion and you expect your child to eat what is in their lunchbox. Can't see what's wrong with a few crisps in moderation either. You can get fat on carrots if you eat enough of them!

I sent fruit bars into school for months and they discovered that they had nuts in (I just didn't realise). So they stopped my son eating it, which was fine. What I thought was hilarious was that my childminder collected him that day and instead of leaving it in his lunchbox, she hid it in her airing cupboard! My son has school dinners except Tuesday which is pizza and pasta day and because we pay daily and I am too soft, I give him a packed lunch. I do find it difficult to find things which have no chocolate and no nuts etc for a dessert. This time of year I can give him yogurt but you can't do that in the summer unless the boxes are refridgerated. Fortunately, despite the airing cupboard incident, when he goes to the childminder in the holidays he can have chocolate in his lunchbox from time to time. In the holidays, I have got to the end of the week and run out of food in the past to go in my son's sandwiches so he's had jam! Bad mother...:-)

Banning foods is lazy school management.

PS I live in Hampshire and the school dinners are excellent - healthy and tasty. Although the portions are a bit small for junior school kids I imagine. They offer pudding every day!

No jam? ridiculous, it is almost 100% FRUIT! My mum makes jam every spring with fruit from our yard, just Pectin, fruit and 1/2 the amount of sugar (My pop, myself and a brother are diabetic).

I (and my granny)am allergic to tunafish and other seafood, why was IT not banned when I was in school??

I will tell everyone why, because my mom didn't complain and sue someone. Eventually it will happen and tuna sandwiches will be banned, don't worry.

Only peanut butter.. which only a tiny miniscule percentage of those with allergies to it will be affected by just smelling it. So MOST kids are being deprived of peanut butter for the one child in the whole city who is benefitted by the ban. Go figure.

Next a milk allergy family, and no cheese sandwiches either.

Then the wheat and/or gluten allergy people will have thier say and no sandwiches PERIOD!

Plus nothing with -too much- salt, fat, or sugar.

What will that leave for kids lunches? Celery sticks and water...... Never mind, just the celery, the water has too many cancer causing additives... so just the celery, as long as it's organic though..........

Good Lord this whole issue is getting out of hand.

What annoys me is how strict my school is on what goes in lunch boxes, but if the children have school dinners, they can eat all kinds of crap food.

I've had this problem with foods from DD's lunchbox being taken away. (a brownie one time and little box of popcorn another)
I got fed up second guessing myself every time I made a packed lunch and so put her back on to school dinners.
What did she have for dinner on Friday?
Pizza and chips for dinner, choc cake and ice cream for pudding. Riiiight so they're ok where a small brownie or a handful or popcorn isn't?
Whole thing is ridiculous.