Problem with boy in DS1's class...... can I complain?

[whippet]

At his last (infant) school DS had a problem with a particular boy (Y) who was very immature, silly, rude and disruptive. He kept getting DS into trouble (poking him in lessons/ talking to him/ stealing his things in lessons etc - generally being a nuisance.

This boy thought DS was a friend. DS couldn't stand him!
Problem was that Y's mum kept trying to push them together, as she thought my DS was a 'good' influence on her son .

DS actually got quite upset about it, and so when we moved to junior school I had a quiet word with the Head and asked if they could be in separate classes. He said he understood, and it was arranged, no problem.

DS came home today upset and said that this boy has been moved INTO his class this term.
Turns out that the mum has asked for him to be moved into this class with his 'friends' (he has just as many people he knows in the other class...).

I am annoyed, but not sure whether I have any real right to complain?
It IS upsetting my DS though... what would you do?

I think, to be honest, that your ds will go through life and meet lots and lots of people he doesn't like, there's no way of avoiding it. It's probably better for him that he learns how to ignore/get along with other people like this as you will not be able to move him to another class or back him up when he's older. He needs to learn how to deal with these types of people himself. I would, however, have a chat with the teacher so she knows what's been going on, she can keep an eye on things.

There are little sods in ds's class too so he's not alone.

This happened to us except I moved my dc's school and the offending child turned up a couple of wks later.
!!!!

I had a quiet word with the teacher. She looked at me like I was a crazy woman tbh, but I felt I had to try something.

Thankfully, my dc found some new friends and it all kinda sorted itself out.

There is not much you can do, I agree with previous posters.

Agreee with Scrooged. If there was a real serious bullying problem going on, then you might have a point, but it seems to be simply that this child is annoying your ds. And being annoyed is something we have to put up with in life.

Just like you, the other child's mum has the right to ask for her child to be placed where she feels he would be happier. I cannot believe this boy is not getting the message if your son dislikes him so much ??

I work in a primary school and I hear it all the time .... "I don't want my son playing with him" "He is bullying my child" etc etc ... but you know what, the children is question are usually seen as getting on just fine. I do however, beleive that bullying does take place, but is grossly confused with normal leader/follower bahaviour that is part of growing up. Some kids will always be told what to do and treated a bit like a doormat frankly, it's just part of their personality (not saying your son is a doormat). Others will be bossy and in your face.

Whippet are you sure you're not the one with the problem about this boy? Do you get on with his mum?

Whippet, do you think should tell your son to avoid the other boy as much as he possibly can?
It is such a shame they have been put back together again.
Have they been sat next to each other?

Have already told my son to avoid him at all costs.
Last year we also 'coached' him in how to tell this boy to leave him alone - in a firm but effective way.

Brainfreeze - no, it's not that I just have a problem with this boy thanks (although I DO have a problem generally with children who swear at and hit their mothers at the school gate, as I have seen this child do...)
It turns out two other parents have complained about this boy being moved into the class.

The problem really lies with the mother who 'targets' particular children who she thinks should be friends with her son, and then pursues them. I'm not kidding - at our last school she was positively stalkign my son's movements. Every club he joined, her kid turned up a week later, and she was always pestering me to share lifts.
She asked the school to pair them off in class to work together.
I asked for them to be separated.

I know it sounds hard, but he really is a rude, obnoxious pest.

I understand completely. The mum sounds like she doesn't know how to handle her child and has the impression that he will learn to behave if he has well behaved friends but this isn't the case. Only she and the people close to her son can influence his behaviour, the teachers, grandparents etc. Maybe have a word with the teacher or go to a parenting class in the hope that she will go too, this will really help.

Good behaviour cant be obtained by placing a poorly behaved child with a well behaved one. Alot of time and effort goes into raising a child IMO, there's a book called the Unwritten Rules of Friendship, it's very good, maybe you could pass this on. It's written to help children make friends by seeing the error of their ways and the way their behaviour affects others. It's a very good book. I would recommend it to her. It sounds like she needs some help and advice. The best thing you can do is give it to her, then all of the children in the school won't have any problems with this child. If you are unable to do this then chat to the teacher. Maybe she can do something. In the mean time, encourage your child to ignore his behaviour. Peer pressure can also work wonders. A simple 'I'm not going to sit next to you/talk to you etc if you behave like that!' can work wonders.

whippet you dont want to make too much of an issue with this at the school or it will look like a witch hunt, these are what 7/8 years old ?, maybe you can ask the teacher if she can keep an eye on things and then trust her to monitor the situation, in the meantime could you not play it down to your son and tell him just to ignore the other boy ?

But if three parents complain about having him move into this particular class- what do you suppose the parents of the other class are doing? The fact that it's not just you complaining suggests that there won't be less of a problem if he's kept away from your son; it will just mean moving the problem onto somebody else.

The poor teachers can't keep shunting him backwards and forwards like a yo-yo every few weeks whenever another parent complains.

And it takes seriously bad behaviour to expel such a young child.

Have you considered that he may have some mild special needs which make it difficult for him to understand other people's reactions. Aspergers, for instance.

A boy who considers my son his "best friend" behaved similarly last year. Lots of unwanted hugging and tricks.

At first, I told my son he "had to" play with the boy. Then I saw my son crying through the end of term show because he didn't want to be next to the other boy who kept embracing him.

I asked my son to write down the things the other boy did that he doesn't like. He did this with relish. Then I told him that it was ok to say "no" to unwanted touching/poking. This greatly relieved him. I did not suggest general rejection commands as in "leave me alone" but more "NO don't hug me. You can play but you can't touch me!"

Then I told the mum (who is not stupid and knew there was something up) that DS1 was upset with her son because of his excessive physical touching. I said it nicely, pointing out that I like getting her son's hugs but he is clearly still developing his sense of boundaries with children.

The mum had the poking stopped within a week. She taught him how to do high fives instead of bear hugs and to ask before giving kisses or cuddles.

So is there any way you can summon up some reserves of strength and compassionate self-interest and make another effort to think positive? If you describe specific behaviours to the other mother (and I appreciate that you would never say "obnoxious" or "pest" about a child this age outside this anonymous forum)then she may be better able to help him. If she takes offence, then congratulations the child is off your hands. If she responds eagerly then the child's behaviour should improve. Either way, you win. But on your present course, everyone loses.

it is a shame.
why don't op have the other boy round to the house and then you will see what the behaviour actually is - if you offer your boy as a friend for this boy perhaps the boy will go off your son???
forbidden fruit and all that.
otehrwise do you talk to teachers about it - have similar problem - but my dd wants/doesnt want to be friends with particular girl. changes on a daily basis.

teachers tell my dd she just has to Stand up for Herself. and i htink the same can be said for your ds

Sorry, Whippet, no offense meant by last thread, it was a genuine question (got the feeling your 'thanks' was of a sarcastic note). I feel sorry for this child to be honest - and I have to say it does sound like a bit of a witch hunt to me (you must be discussing him with other mothers?) Also, Cory I would be very careful banding labels such as Aspergers about !! . If this boy has any special needs, hopefully, the school will be dealing with it along with his parents. I have seen many parents go through this kind of experience and they need support, not a group of mothers ostracising or damning their child. It can be incredibly stressful for them and the child - he is very young

Is your son in danger or at risk around this boy? Is he being bullied or hurt by him? If so, you have more of an argument to get something done. If not, it's best left alone.

If you are talking about it with other mums Whippet maybe it could be along the lines of "well we are stuck with them, how can we engage with them positively and help them?". There were a group of parents at my school who all declined invitations to one boy's party when he was FIVE on the grounds of him being "naughty"!!!! Talk about self-fulfilling prophecies!

Again, I appreciate that this is a "safe" place so you felt able to express your feelings in a more forthright way than in the playground!!!

I think the teachers would respond better to a positive attitude also.

Thanks for the comments, and brainfreeze, sorry, yes I did soudn a bit touchy didn't I?

There is lots more behind this from 18 months ago which I haven't explained. I'm not normally very confrontational, and I do believe my kids should learn to stand up for themselves to some extent.

However we tried a lot of the things suggested at the time without success.
At the risk of sounding like a judgemental witch, it's not really the boy's fault, it's the mother's I think. He clearly needs some help and support with building and maintaining social relationships, and she is not providing that.
He does not have any special needs (in the diagnosed sense) as far as I am aware.

We tried the playdates, and lift-sharing, and getting my son to play with him but to say no about things he didn't like etc. The problem is, at the first hint of friendship, this child, and his mother, are like limpets. My son has a wide variety of friends and gets on with most people, but his boy was spoiing that by his silly behaviour, and by ruining the games they played, silly name calling etc.
He was always 'hanging off' (literally!) DS and tried to stop anyone else partnering with him/ being friends with him etc.

To be honest, the teacher at the time wasn't great, and it all came to a head when I found out that DS was paired with this boy in class to 'help him' with his work (DS is very strong academically, and early reader etc).
In non-classroom lessons such as drama/ games/ music etc this boy was getting DS into trouble, and although DS wasn't showing it at school he was very upset and agitated about it at home (which is very unlike him). It was like he had an emotional bully and a stalker. He stopped wanted to go to after school clubs ("what's the point? He'll be there...")

I went for coffee with the Mum and tried to gently explain that the 'friendship' wasn't working, and that my son wanted a broad base of friends. She simply would not hear/ listen or accept it, just kept saying "but they're SUCH good friends, they are soooo good together"
She really is a nutcase I'm afraid.
e.g.

• she once picked up my son from an after-school drama club without telling me - we were a few minutes late, and she persuaded the duty teacher that it was OK . When I got to the school, found out and phoned her she was trying to stop me from collecting him until 6 pm as they 'were having such fun together' (they weren't...)

• she has phoned various teachers to ask that they be paired off for school teams/ a drama competition, and on each occasion she has siad that she is phoning on behalf of me as well!

I know I sound hard and unfeeling, but this caused us so much grief at the time, I simply don't want to go back there

"Also, Cory I would be very careful banding labels such as Aspergers about !!"

How does suggesting that this might be one of many possible explanations constitute bandying it about? I did not say he had it- just pointed out that undiagnosed SN sometimes does cause problems like this.

The daughter of friends had big problems at school because of undiagnosed Aspergers, which meant the other children just thought of her as odd and naughty.

And I know other children in a similar position, whose parents would have been very grateful if somebody had taken the trouble to think "well, maybe there is some reason we don't know about yet so we will try not to judge".

IME diagnosing SN can take a very long time, particularly if the parent is not cooperative. And not all schools are good at dealing with SN- I've read some horror stories on the SN board and contributed a few of my own.

My friends' dd's problem was with physical boundaries, which meant that other children found her very invasive and a bit scary. I believe she is now doing extremely well with support.

Sadly, it's not so much the boy who is the problem, is it, it's the mother. I feel sorry for him (Y) - but not as much as I do for you. It's a really tricky situation.

I think what she is doing is overstepping the bounds of being annoying. She is telling lies to the teaching staff about your wishes, for a start.

What I would do is, I think, to call a meeting with DS's class teacher and explain the full situation - about the after-school clubs, etc etc. Say that you completely understand that it is up to her who pairs off with whom, but that yoou feel it is better if they are kept apart, and under no circumstances is Y's mother speaking for you. And ask her to make this information known.

Then make it clear to the school in a letter that you have had problems with her, and that under no circumstances should she be allowed to pick up your child, and that if she does call and says she is speaking for you, this is not true.

And yes, I think this boy probably does need some social help; but given what his mother is doing, it's not surprising.

Oh crikey Whippet. The mother's behaviour is quite serious isn't it? I guess my ideas are not going to work at all with this lady in the mix. sorry! I feel even more sorry for the boy now....