Preparation for key stage 1 SATS

[Reallytired]

My son is in year 2 and will be sitting SATs either at the end of this term or in May. I am not sure how it works. Do children still sit tests or is it done on teacher assessment?

I found some old papers and mark schemes on the internet. It has been a bit of shock how rigid the mark scheme can be. I get the feeling that quite a few marks can be lost by not understand what is required, even if the child has no problem with the maths, reading or writing.

For example am I right thinking that in Maths if a question asks you to show working out and you only give an answer with no indication of what method you have used then the child will get a big fat zero. Even if their answer is right. Similarly a child can get a wrong answer but get a good proportion of the marks if they show they understand what they needed to do.

How do you make sure that a child has the best chance of showing off their ablity and not throw away marks. I really don't want my son to do practice papers or get stressed. He is only six and too young to have a care in the world.

However I do not want my son to end up in the bottom sets next year with the nightmare kids.

there seems to be a LOT of misinformation in a lot of the posts on here. As a Teacher who has done the year two sats in the past four years, so am up to date with the changes..all children sit the SATS tests unless the teacher/head feel it would be unnecessary because they would fail to score. They are done with the children in small groups outside the classroom with the class teacher. The class teacher then marks the tests and if they feel that the marks do not reflect the true ability of the child, they can then change them to be more reflective, HOWEVER, the teacher MUST be able to back up their resonning with evidential proof from the childs work over the course of the year, they cannot just say, well I know they could do better than that, and up their mark. Also, the final result is reported to the LEA, the governors and the parents, so I am not sure why one poster has said that they are not. Now, this final result could in fact be how your child scored in the actual test, or it could be a change based on teacher assessment. Yr 2 teachers have to go through a lot of hurdles to change the sats marks, as they have to prove to the head, quite often a governor in charge of the subject and very often a moderator from the LEA as to why the mark should be changed.
Also, in my experience, we never tell the children they are being "tested" they just think they are going out of the room to do special work...so if the child knows they are doing Sats then this information has come from other sources outside of school.
In reference to the original post...I certainly would not worry about your son sitting the SATS unless he is struggling quite a bit...the school does a lot of prep with the kids and likely will do old papers with them closer to may or early june when they sit the test.

Srry, Melissa, but you have done a fair bit of misinforming yourself - I spoke the truth! I also speak as a teacher who has ?done? Y2 SATS for the last 6 years. I am in Y5 for this year, but as Assessment co-ordinator (and Literacy co-ordinator) I work closely with Y2 and Y6 teachers. Last year our school was moderated by the LEA.

I would have to disagree with you on one or two points - some things may be how they are done in your school, but they are not statutory. "They are done with the children in small groups outside the classroom with the class teacher" is the first of these - I always did them as part of normal classroom practice, but this was my choice. And you do have a choice.
"Also, the final result is reported to the LEA, the governors and the parents, so I am not sure why one poster has said that they are not." They are not! Your final teacher assessment is reported to the LEA, governors and parents. The moderator from our LEA required, as you say, "evidential proof" of this teacher assessment from 3 children's work over the course of the year. They also wanted to see just those 3 children's tests, but most of the evidence had to come from the school's own assessment procedures, children's work annotated with post-it notes, guided reading records, etc - all to show how you arrived at your final teacher assessment (much like the Foundation Stage Profile, and hopefully Y6 soon, according to the pilots).
The whole point of the new assessments at the end of Key Stage 1 is to move right away from the 'snapshot' approach, and more into 'Building the whole Picture' (didn't you have to sit through that terrible DVD? ) I would be worried if my LEA was still making me report test levels - this is not statutory, and they should trust teacher assessment and have moved right away from this approach by now.

From the KS1 Assessment and Reporting Arrangements 2009 booklet:
"Schools must report for all children:
a teacher assessment level in reading, writing, and speaking and listening a separate teacher assessment level for each science attainment target an overall teacher assessment level in mathematics and science"
and
"The child's overall teacher assessment levels that have been sent to the local authority must be reported to their parents, carers or guardians."

And, interestingly, a bit that refers to lljkk's request - "Task and test results held by schools as part of an individual child's educational record must be disclosed to that child's parents, carers or guardians on request, as required by The Education (Pupil Information) (England) Regulations 2005."

So there you go!

Feenie, thanks for your points, but you will notice I did not say they HAVE to be done outside the classroom...
Also, I said the final result is reported to the LEA, governors and parents...that means just that, the final result, that being the result whether it has come from the SATS paper or has been changed from teacher assessment is irrelevant, they are only interested in the final result and unless you are being moderated or there are some serious concerns, I highly doubt your going to get a phone call to ask how many are from the papers and how many from the over year assessment
I do not think it is a case of my being misinformed, but more a case of not reading what I had written!

No, but you said that they are done outside the classroom, and of course, they are not in all schools. And it would be extremely bad practice to report a result which has only come from a SATS paper, Melissa. Moderation by LEAs proves that they are extremely interested in how the final teacher assessment has been arrived at, or how are parents, LEAs and government ever going to let us ditch the KS2 tests and rely on teacher assessment?

this is actually becoming very trivial and nitpicky...and we could go back and forth on point to point till we're blue in the face...

your right, there is a choice in where the SATS are done...I am not sure why it seems to make such a huge difference, and my point was that if the SATS paper is evident of the childs ability..then you would leave it there, you would not change the mark...thats what I am saying, but for some reason, it is being read WAY too much into.

Feenie, you seem to be extremely passionate about this topic!

I am passionate about having clear information on a thread where yet again a parent is needlessly worrying about how to 'prepare' their child for KS1 tests. The new style of teacher assessment has completely revolutionised the system and taken pressure like this off 7 year olds, parents and teachers. It really concerns me when schools don't pass this information on to parents, leading to panicking threads at this time of year.
I'm sorry, but you did rather set yourself up for challenge when you asserted that you were up to date with the current changes and then proceeded to propogate the myth that these tests are still important and that children are taken out of class - the tests are now proportionally a VERY small part of how a child's teacher assessment should be arrived at, and are bottom of the list in the wealth of evidence we should have as teachers to back up our opinions, and I think parents should know this.

I wish you teacher lot argue so, surely you're saying 99% the same things (as far as us mere mortals can tell), and most of your dispute is probably down to differences in LEA interpretation and policy.
I think it's obvious that OP is in a small minority in worrying about KS1 SATs.
DC2 I think may have a chance at getting all level 3s in the SATs, and frankly I would love to know if she did, even if the teacher assessment turned out different. Maybe it's egotistical misplaced pride on my part, but I can live with that .

I have 3 other DC who seem unlikely to be as academic, though, but I'd still like to know how they did in a purely standardised/national average sort of way, too. I guess I'd feel a bit remiss as a parent if I didn't obtain all that kind of info in order to understand their strengths and weaknesses better, maybe other people can do fantastic job supporting their DC without those details, but I need all the help/data I can get.

May a teacher downgrade a student's national test score part, if they feel that is not-reflective, too? Can of worms that would be though, if it got found out!

argh, DIDN'T ARGUE SO, I meant.
Tried to say too much last post,must crawl back under rock, now.

"May a teacher downgrade a student's national test score part, if they feel that is not-reflective, too?"
Yes, mloo - supposing a child 'squeaked' into Level 3c (lowest level 3) by one or two marks, but the majority of the time was working at a 2a (top level 3)? In that case, the teacher assessment would have to be 2a, because the child wouldn't be secure in Level 3.
Incidentally, under the old SAT tests, the child would have received a Level 3c scoreand that would have been that, causing all kinds of problems when children go into KS2, or when the school receives value added predicted scores for those children. Much better that a child who is comfortably working at 2a to begin Level 3 work on a solid foundation.

"Can of worms that would be though, if it got found out!"
Not really, since the evidence for the final teacher assessment has to now come from such a wide range of sources, with the actual test result being a very small part. If schools explain this properly to parents, there shouldn't be a problem.

You can't opt out of SATS at y2. The teacher now only gives a teacher assessment, which they will arrive at using all sorts of evidence. A small part of the evidence will come from the tests, which take place over several weeks. If your child in absent during one week, the teacher may decide to complete the test with them the following week, or not at all.

In the case of your dd, she would be teacher assessed the same way as she always has, throughout y2 (and y1, and Reception). If it's normal for her to dictate her work and a TA scribe for her, for example, then that's what would happen.

I am interested! How does she work at school day to day? Whatever happens, her teacher will know exactly where she is right now, and will just assess her as they do normally. Nothing different would happen. Teacher assessment takes place every day throughout primary school - the only difference in Y2s case is it is reported to parents, and that a small part of it comes from the tests (or not, if a child can't access them).

No need to worry The list of what they know she can do already translates to a certain level now, and will do later. That's it!

I know this thread is over a year old but I was looking up information on ks1 sats and bumped into it.

Feenie, as the most passionate poster on the subject that I've come across so far, can you say if what you said a year ago remains true today of ks1 sats?

DD is in year 2 and while I don't want to prepare her specifically for them it would be useful to know what's happening. At the beginning of the school year the head did tell parents that the children would be 'assessed' throughout the year I believe.

I have been trying to consolidate things learned at school and build on her weak areas in much the same way as I did last year but truth be told there is a greater consciousness that she is being assessed.

May a teacher downgrade a student's national test score part, if they feel that is not-reflective, too?"
Yes, mloo - supposing a child 'squeaked' into Level 3c (lowest level 3) by one or two marks, but the majority of the time was working at a 2a (top level 3)? In that case, the teacher assessment would have to be 2a, because the child wouldn't be secure in Level 3.

This interests me. Given dips and spurts are normal, could it not be that the child HAS honestly reached level 3C by the time of the national tests? What if he was secure level 3 material by then?

I see the sense in what you say but maybe the danger is in the wrong hands and in a less than ideal setting I fear less might be expected from this child than another who has worked steadily at a higher level all along? More reinforcing would be thought to be needed, for perhaps a reasonably long period etc (and such reinforcing might be sensible for most children but not all). Meanwhile those at the 'top' pull further and further ahead and the 3C who doesn't deserve to be a 3C becomes demoralised?

Something like this happened to me at school because I didn't fit the format I feel and I fear I see so many echoes of the 70s back again in our Primary classrooms. Poor handwriting, spelling and average scores on early English comprehension tests kept me in the bottom sets all the way. It was discovered I had real ability, I surprised them a bit later on, but by then I had decided I wasn't any good. They had thought it was a good idea to keep me where I was at the top of the bottom set, oh for about 6 years, even though my test scores began to outstrip the most able in the top set. They never moved me up. They did ask me if I wanted to do English O'level a year early but I said no as I assumed I didn't have the ability as I was in low set.

I look at friends who have kids abroad in IB schools. My friend has an 8 year old currently in set 6 of 8 Maths sets across the year group. The feeling is that my friend's child should be easily capable of the equivalent of an A+ at GCSE, the teacher has told my friend this clearly. It's all about current attainment NOT ability at this stage. It's all very upbeat and positive it seems. It's interesting. They don't have any SATS etc. SATS just seem so linear and prescriptive, especially if used rigidly, to my untutored eyes.

In our primary KS1 scores are largely used to set the children in Year 3. We also get target grades for end of the year as early as term 1. When these are lower than the stage my son is working at six weeks on these only serve to panic me. Although I get they are only a 'rough guide' etc. If you see that your child is apparently '1C' material at the end of year 1, and there are no learning problems and they appear to be doing well, a mother like me is likely to get shall we say, a bit concerned .

So, really, does no one prepare for these KS1 SATs? I find that hard to believe. And I'll be the first to admit we have a practise book and work our wan through it on the weekend. I had a consultation a couple of weeks ago for year 2 DD. Was told she was doing well in math, nearing the 3 mark, but still in 2A. So I asked if there was anything in the math work that she was doing as well at. And she said that DD doesn't recognise "quarter to" on a digital clock. This my fault. I thought they studies the old fashioned analog, and removed the digital clock from the kithcen so she would learn the old fashioned way. So, last weekend, we did some bbc worksheets on ks1 time telling. We did them on and off for about an hour while we had lunch at the gym. She worked hard, but she also had fun. And she now knows half past, quarter to, etc. on both clocks. I see nothing wrong with this. And she will perform better on the KS1 test in the math section as a result.

Maths not math.
Up to you if you want to improve her time telling but don't do it for the SATS, really, DON'T (I am KS1 teacher).
I am appalled that anyone would feel the need to hothouse a six year old.
You really should stop wasting time on the computer though and start finding a really good tutor for the 11+

Not on my side of the ocean: math

Of course I'll do it for the SATs. AS has already been pointed out it may effect her placement in year 3. I want her to be chaallenged where she is capable of achieving more. This does not equate to "hothousing" in my book.

And if schools don't want competition in six years, they should stop streaming them. But, so long as DD is going to be stream, I want her streamed up and not down. That would do irreversible damage to her self esteem.

But, the reason I posted here was not because I needed someone to motivate me to sort out an 11+ tutor (done ages ago) but rather because I can't believe for a second I am the only one doing this.

I think there are a lot of closet puchy parents out there. You, those who pretend not to care where their child is because it isn't cool to be called a puchy parent. But, behind closed doors they are very competitive.

Do primary schools really now have rigid sets? I assume it must make a difference with the size of schools - in a one form entry school there will be groupings within a class but I can't see how setting could happen.

In two or three form entry there is more possibility for sets but I would hope that what children do in Y2 is not going to set their future in stone.

Strix I see where you are coming from. A lower than average predicted grade for the end of year one (for a perfectly competent child) breeds 'pushiness' IMO. Especially when this is given at the end of term one, year one.

While there's streaming going on in year 3, I agree many of us are going to be helping our children along at home.

Even if we don't mind about streaming etc I personally think it's perfectly healthy to review/reinforce school work with your child at home. I try to do 10-20 mins a day, it's a good discipline I think and it can be a fun, challenging and stimulating time when you bond with your child.

Of course many help their children prepare for KS1 'tests' - the huge amount of key stage 1 workbooks show that. Interestingly the Key Stage 1 work books are endorsed by NAPE (National Association for Pirmary Education). John Coe, the general secretary says:

'If we compare the impact upon children of even the finest schools and teachers, we find that 3 or 4 times as great an impact is made by the reality of children's lives outside the school. No adult can have as much impact, for good or ill as the young child's mother or father'.

'The great majority of parents want to help their children grow and learn and teachers are keen to support them. Both sides of the partnership know how important it is that children should be challenged and stimulated both in and out of school.'

Cortina, I have seen you posting on quite a few education threads. As an ex-teacher and now parent of a 6 year old and 4 year old I have a lot of interest in education, but I know that I am a teacher any more.

I also know that I used to have quite a lot of "ivory towers" ideals which were fine when I was not in front of a class of 30 children, but rather fell apart in the real world .

I would hope that all children are helped at home in some way, but not necessarily in a formalised way. I would agree with you that the input out of school is very important, but that there will be some for whom this doesn't happen, for a variety of reasons.