Could somebody talk me through it again why I should be the muppet who pays for full price holidays when everybody else at my dc's school...

[emkana]

... takes their children out for holidays regularly.

I used to feel strongly that this is WRONG, but now I'm thinking why don't I do it as well?

Yes, I understand that. But children aren't stupid and if you talk to them and explain the worth of school then I've found that they do usually understand why they have to go and why it's okay to sometimes not go.
We've had to drop the idea of a holiday at a certain time during term-time because the children werem't willing to miss that time.

werem't

we find it hard to find suitable places to go as ds has asd so tend to stick to the same places as they feel familiar and safe to him, we have booked butlins at beginning of july for me DH, DS, DD and DSD for 7 nights and its costing £289 inc food, the same holiday in last week of july is priced at £952.

I think it is bonkers that in school years where there are no sats etc that they don't just say you can take up to x days

Apologies Bonkerz I didn't know that about asd.

Sorry juule we're going to have to disagree on that one. I don't think it's ever OK not to go to school unless you are really ill (and even then it's not great to miss it - tho I don't send sick childrne in of course)

See I think there is a lot more to school than SATs. They are sooooo far from the most important things.

Maybe this is because my oldest child has an IEP and is on the SN register.

I don't want him to miss any chance to learn at school just because I couldn't save up an extra £800 or whatever over a year to go on hols when err he is on hols.

To clarify, I would only take them out for three or four days, and they are hardly ever ill (touch wood)

we are paying less than £1000 for our holiday in August - two weeks on an island! Of course - it is off the coast of Scotland.....

Do the people who think it's okay to take children out of school for holidays, also condone the idea of "pulling sickies" at work? And if they do pretend the children are ill "with a bug" in order to avoid paying the fine for taking them out of school, do they also encourage their children to lie or to keep the holiday a secret from their teachers and friends?

No, I would never lie about it, but thankfully I don't need to - The school my DD is in allows us 10% off school a year, and that includes up to 10 days off for holidays. We have to complete a form and book those days off - hence it is easy for a five year old to understand the difference between holidays and skiving - we ask permission for her to have 5 days off for a holiday, and we are given it. The school has no problem with that (providing the holidays are at sensible times - they will not authorise holidays in May for example). DD knows that you have to ask permission to have time off for holidays, and so she knows that this is not the same as making school 'optional' because she is not stupid - she knows the rules, and there is no need for lying.

I think the whole idea of holidays making school seem optional is a spurious argument really - children understand rules and exceptions all the time. Children know that they should generally be honest, but that it is okay to keep secrets about presents at Christmas (or to lie about FC being real to younger brothers and sisters), or that they don't tell people what they really think of them. I could give 101 different examples where children know that there are general rules, but that there are exceptions in certain circumstances - and after all, keeping secrets about Christmas does not make a child think it is okay to lie! What is important is what happens the majority of the time - is school enforced the other 39 weeks of term? If so, then children will not think school is optional. In 10 years of teaching, I have never met a child who thinks it is okay to skive school because they have holidays.

Incidentally, I always had my holidays in term time (That was when my dad's shutdown time was), I was always top set, ahead in school - never got behind, and never had any trouble catching up. I also understood the difference. Give the kids credit for at least some intelligence.

course school is optional. My boys were home educated till 13 and chose to go to school. They know they can leave at any time and takes days off if they are tired. School for them is optional.
We don't do family holidays cos of the cost but ds2 still comes to Home ed camps - last year we went camping during 'activities week (which was a 900 pounds holiday in Cornwall. My camping cost 25 quid), a week in June, a week in July for hesfes and the first week of term.
He's still top of the class and he's only been there one term. ds1 hates camping but will take the odd afternoon off when he's very tired. I think he's had one half day off this term despite knowing he could take any day off. He's self disciplined and has learnt a valuable lesson I reckon.
dd2 has just started reception and will come to hesfes next year (July) but she takes loads of time off for hospital admissions and appointments.

We solve this problem by not going on hols. The horror of getting the 4 of them out the door (shudder). DH sometimes takes some DC away to stay with a relative for a week or less in summer, that's the height of our ambitions.

The last 7 days of this term, DC had school parties, watched 3 DVDs (this is IN school hours, I emphasise), did a lot of practice for a carol concert they weren't going to attend, had school Xmas fair (Reception children taken around by pairs of Y6s). Last day was 'toy day' when they brought in toys and just played all day. DS is adament they had no real lessons at all for last 2 weeks. They would have missed out nothing by going on hols.

Well in some schools they may not miss anything by skipping a few days at the end of school. In my school in the final week, Year 11 had mock exams, Year 10 were completing coursework and everybody else had normal lessons. Can't be bothered to get into an argument about it - will have to agree to disagree.

It different for everyone I suppose.
I used to be taken out of school every September for a holiday (and not because of costs because we always stayed with family) and I hated it because I always felt I was playing catch-up. So I don't take my DCs away during school time but have plenty of friends who do.

The worse for me is a parent who asked me to mind their DCs at a reduced rate because times were hard and they couldnt afford the local after school club and they were struggling, etc and they are off this week on the forth holiday abroad this year! The last one they told the children not to mention to me but the children couldnt resist.

It's not always about price.

Sometimes it's about timing and genuinely not being able to do another time.

I have to say it I do not think it is at all unreasonable, particularly for those in areas of employment where leave for school hols are booked up well in advance. The NHS being one good example! We used to have a max of 3 staff off at any one time which for a 6 week school holiday was 9 staff 2 weeks each. Not great if you weren't one of the first up!

Children do catch up and realistically will have time off for illness etc as long as parents are sensible I see no problems, there will always be children working at different paces for whatever reason and class teaachers should be used to teaching at different levels.

Mrs Weasley I think I would be saying something about an increase in prices!!

We've never taken them out of school, but in the week before Christmas this year they each watched DVD's, played games and had school concerts - very little/no work involved. They are 9 and 11, at separate schools, and I for one will not, in future, worry about them falling behind through missing 5 days of no education.

Can you tell I'm actually pretty peed off about this?

schools allow you 10 days off in term time per academic year! I dont see a problem as long as its not in middle of tests or in run up to them or at beginning of year!

until something is done about the extortionate prices holiday comanies cahrge in school holidays i think the government recognise that parents will take their children out of school, wrongly or rightly,

I have found it an expensive principle to have, so we do it for no more than 4 days (with permission) tacked onto an inset day or bank holiday and at a time when we know there are no tests etc.

If we didn't we just couldn't afford to have the special treats we wish our children to occasionally enjoy and I don't want them to miss out just because we have a larger family.

On another note, yes, I do respect the fact that school is very important, but sometimes when I find out that they've spent time watching films or dressing up at school and when we are expected to be doing masses of homework in the evenings with dc, I can see there is well... room for some leeway shall we say, on both sides so I don't feel too badly about it.

I'm now in year 24 as a mother of having to take holidays in school holidays and paying the price and have another 11 years of it still to come. Why? Because to disobey a school rule is a bad example to show a child. To disrupt their work isn't good. To require them to have to make up work affects them and because I pay a lot for the school anyway and their father is a teacher anyway so was only free in school holidays anyway.

Xenia - I knew we'd agree on something eventually! Although my argument doesn't have the fee-paying element, I totally agree that we should not be teaching children that it's okay to miss school if not ill.

If the price of holidays didn't triple the minute they come home for their 6 week break we wouldn't have this problem, would we?

So, Xenia, if you didn't pay a lot for the school and/or their father was only free during term-time do you think that might affect your decision at all?

We used to take DS1 out of school for the last two weeks of June every year from reception to Y3. The majority of DH's family, including his (then living) grandparents live in France and we thought it was really important for him to spend time with family - at that stage there was no way we could afford to do it in school holidays. The school never had a problem with it - you could still legitimately take up to ten days at the head teacher's discretion then.

We're now in Oz and expat kids at our school often have time off to go and see family abroad - the school perceives it as the parent's choice, they just need a letter giving dates/reason for absence to satisfy their legal requirements.