Can I have your take on this punishment please?

[vaujany]

DS is 4, and he started Reception in September. There have been issues with his behaviour since then, and we have been called in to see the teacher. He is going to be observed so strategies can be put together to "manage" his behaviour.

He seems to be doing well academically, but it's been suggested he doesn't do so well in groups. He has confirmed glue ear, which has resulted in a moderate loss in one ear, mild in the other. He complains about his ears "not working properly" and we were the ones (not the teachers) who were initially concerned about his hearing.

He has no diagnosed Special Needs.

That's the background to today. On a Friday they go swimming in the afternoon after lunch and play.

He was disruptive three times this morning. I don't know how he was disciplined immediately over these incidents - the school do things like holding the child's hand, isolating them for a few minutes, ignoring "bad" behaviour (which in DS's case seems to be the most effective option).

The teacher, after lunch, asked him why he behaved how he did, and he told her that he was still hungry (even though these incidents were this morning). It was then agreed by the teachers that he would be excluded from swimming.

I do agree that he does need to be punished, but IMO this is inappropriate for a four-year old. He does need to learn that certain behaviour is inappropriate, but at home we do try to "punish" straight away, then forget about the event and move on. Also, it does seem counter-productive to remove from young children the "privelege" of physical activity.

The school hasn't previously made it clear the swimming is seen as a "reward" for "good" behaviour - if t that is how it's seen by them then they should make that clear.

Could I have your take on this punishment please?

(I am not making excuses for his behaviour, I don't think he shouldn't be punished, I am not being PFBish, but I do think that any punishment should be age-appropriate.)

Id be annoyed that they hadnt punished him from free play time or something such as learning to swim is imo very very important.

I also think he should have been pre-warned "if you continue to misbehave x will happen" rather than just ok now your being punished.

Swimmimg is part of National Curriculum isn't it? So how do they justify that?

I agree he should have been disciplined in some way but it seems inappropriate to me.

Assuming that it was a case of excluding him from swimming as a punishment, rather than that they were concerned about the safety implications if his disruptive behaviour continued, I don't think it is an appropriate punishment. Physical education, including swimming, is just that part of the child's education and a child shouldn't be just excluded from it without the same procedures being followed that would be followed if he were being excluded from the desk-based aspects of his education.

I agree with you - they should "punish" straight away, otherwise the punishment makes no sense to a child of this age. I also think excluding him from swimming is unfair, especially if it has never been made explicit that swimming is a reward for good behaviour.

Is the glue ear being treated, and do the teachers take it into account when talking to your DS? My brother had glue ear and my parents had to remove him from his first primary school because the teachers refused to believe it was a real complaint (this was 30 years ago and it was a fairly barbaric school). He eventually had grometts (sp??) put in and that changed his life totally, but those early years of having ears that didn't work properly left him with a lot of catching up to do and dented his self confidence. Once he moved to a school where the teachers understood the issue life was a lot easier for him.

If you haven't already, could you sit down with his teacher and the head and explain to them about the glue ear and the effect it may have on his behaviour and his understanding of what they're trying to tell him when he misbehaves? Do they stand in front of him when they talk to him? We realised my brother could only "hear" us if we stood in front of him to talk to him. He wasn't really hearing but lip-reading. With my brother the teachers would stand behind him and call to him, he wouldn't hear, they'd think he was ignoring them, so they'd punish him.

Sorry, I'm rambling. It's just my brother went through hell with all this and I hate to think of other children suffering the same sort of treatment from the minority of teachers who are ignorant on this issue.

Thank you very much for your responses. He is off on half-term next week, and I think the break will do everyone some good.

We are very lucky that he will be able to have grommets put in on Thursday. My other DS had grommets put in a year ago, and they made a huge difference.

We are hoping that once he is able to hear "properly" group life at school will be much more pleasant for everybody concerned.

Thx

Well he won't be going swimming with the grommets in anyway. Not really the point I know but adds to the equation...

I thought current thinking was that swimming was OK (but not diving)?

I don't think they should have removed him from swimming...he probably didn't understand that this is punishment for behaviour that he's already forgotten all about.

Also, it is making one lesson out to be a treat when it's not, it's a part of the school day like any other. They wouldn't have removed him from maths or reading would they? It's making swimming out to be something fun and extra, and so by association other lessons must be boring and rubbish because you have to go to them even if you've been naughty.

Hope you get the glue ear sorted out soon. I don't know anything about it but it sounds as though it's making his school life pretty hard right now.

Is the swimming pool off site? If so, for safety reasons alone, children need to be able to do as they've been asked. On that same day, your ds hadn't, and therefore would have posed a risk to the other children. It's good that your ds is upset that he couldn't go, because he will remember next Friday that he needs to do as he's been asked in order that he is able to go. Standard procedure, imo.

What Spectregadget said

Agree with spectre and frank. The school obviously felt that his behaviour was sufficiently disruptive that they did not feel it appropriate or safe to take him swimming. However, I do think they should have said to him in the morning "If you continue behaving like this, you will not be able to go swimming this afternoon", to give him a chance to make more positive decisions about his behaviour.

As far as I know, swimming is in the National Curriculum for Key Stage 2, not Foundation or Key Stage 1.

The Glue Ear is an issue. Does he wear ear plugs for swimming? Did his ears have water in after swimming? Was he suffering from an ear infection at the time?

My DD had Glue Ear. When she was first diagnosed with it, the Consultant confirmed that parents/teachers will initially not suspect Glue Ear, but believe that the child is disruptive, disobedient, ignores them etc. He explained that a child with Glue Ear will hear the world through a muffled funnel and therefore most times will not hear instructions given to them etc. Hence the negative interpretation of their behaviour by those who don't understand what's wrong. I must admit that I was in tears when he explained this, and I thought back to all the times I'd ticked her off for not listening etc..

I would be talking to the teacher about the Glue Ear and how this can affect him at school. I'd also say that a hungry child with blocked ears after swimming would be an upset child, not necessarily an intentionally disruptive one. I know Glue Ear drove my DD to distraction.

I read somewhere that there is also a condition associated with Glue Ear (those who have previously suffered from it), whereby children are unable to differentiate between voices around them. Basically all sounds around them merge into one big noise. This is significant within a school environment, where there will be lots of noise in a classroom and a child with glue ear will be unable to screen out the noise to enable them to hear, for example, a teacher talking to them.

Based on my experiences with grommets in DS2, the most risky activity if a child has grommets is in fact using soapy, sudsy water. The soap / shampoo makes the water slippery, so it's easier to get into the grommet. Normal water, including pool water is too "thick".

He won't be able to swim for three weeks after the op. You can get ear plugs made, for DS2 we also used, for a while, cotton wools buds and a "wrap" to keep them in. The consultant is actually quite relaxed about the swimming.

I don't think because a child is disruptive during one part of the day he will be disruptive at other times.

oops, I don't think because a child is disruptive in some parts of the day you can presume he will be so at other times of the day...

He's having his op on Thursday.

Swimming is national curriculum at KS2 not KS1. However, your ds is FOUR. Swimming is a life skill and I don't think he should have missed it. I think this was totally inappropriate, they should be using positive means of reinforcement rather than punishing him. If they thought he was going to be a risk to the other children that is another issue but it sounds more like it was a punishment. We haven't even got to half term yet - we really do need to give our YR kids a break. I would talk to the school about this - it sounds like an unlawful exclusion to me. And if he IS being disruptive because of his glue ear, then that's a SEN of sorts and they need to be careful about how they deal with it.