General support thread in relation to school starting age

[lingle]

A general thread with the aim of gathering and sharing information on the options available re school starting age in the UK.

I'm hoping that parents of summer-borns can exchange useful information on their options here and that parents who have deferred or not deferred as the case may be will report back on how things have gone for their children.

To kick things off, here is the background to the debate.

[http://www.ifs.org.uk/docs/born_matters_report.pdf]

All this discussion is really useful to me and I so agree that in this country we push children to do too much too soon. I was wondering at the moment - if legally a child does not have to start school until the term after they turn 5, then surely a child should be allowed to do just that - "start" school - ie in the reception class - not be forced to miss a year of education if the parents want to wait until the child is turned 5. Does a local authority have the power to do this? I wonder if anyone has got a legal opinion - LAs are always applying unlawful policies after all. I don't know anything about education law myself, but I will be trying to find out a bit more. My DS will be 4 next Aug and will have to start as if I choose to defer for a year he will have to go straight into Yr 1 - which I cannot countenance. This is W Sussex.

I have looked at the report that has been highlighted above - thanks Lingle and paintingrainbows and I am v shocked and v anxious about the education of my DS (and DD - also August birthday). (I started another thread as did not know about this one) I think it is absolutely nuts that a parent needs to get extra tuition for a 4/5 yr old. At that age, hometime should be about play and having fun, socialising with friends etc -.

Forever cleaning -

how did it go in Year 1?

DD1 is summer born. She should have begun P1 in the Scottish system this year.

Thankfully, with her dyspraxia and learning difficulties, the ed psych put forth and won the case for the local authority to fund her a further year in a nursery with an ASN (Scottish for SEN) unit attached where she receives OT, SALT and physio with other children with LDs and ASN) as well as has a keyworker.

We are very pleased with the decision!

Unlike in England, children in Scotland who are retained at stage are not forced to enter secondary school at the same time as their peers and therefore bumped up a year.

I think starting children in FT education at 4 is for the most part a poor idea, but I am not a native Brit and come from a place where FT education starts at the age of 6.

The Scottish system allows parents the right to hold their children back at their own discretion if they are summer borns - up until December.

DD2, a December born, and DS, an October born, will be held back as well. No matter how 'advanced' they are.

I think starting them at 4 sets them up for a lot of problems later on.

I'll join in; my August born started a year late in reception & has continued as one of the oldest in her year (now yr8). She's bright but dyslexic & I'm fairly sure she wouldn't have fared as well in the year above, though of course you never know. Oh, and it's a private school - LEA wouldn't contemplate it.

My Ds1 is an august baby who has just gone into Yr1, he started last year and did well at first, loved the social side, very popular, teacher described him as her 'little ray of sunshine'. But the last term as it became more about sitting down and doing work and less about play he really began to dread school to the point that even all through the summer holidays he was asking when he had to go back to school and saying he didnt want to We have tears and tantrums every evening about school and often in the morning. I have actually taken him to the dr to check there is nothing physical going on as he has become so lethargic and miserable compared to how he was I really want to make sure there is nothing else wrong.

He is in a mixed yr1 and reception class this year so I am hoping that will help with his confidence. But if he carries on being so miserable and there isn't anything physically wrong with him then I am seriously considering home educating him, I am not prepared to keep making him this miserable. Almost as soon as he comes out of school he is asking if he has to go back the next day and gets upset and angry if I say yes, he worrys about it all weekend and worried all through the holidays

He has a new list of about 5 or 6 spellings every week including words like lunch, chest, that, with, the. His teacher (not nearly as nice and understanding as his teacher last year) keeps banging on about 'oh you're Yr1 now you have to do x, y and z', most children the same age as him are on half days and just playing all day, just because this ridiculous system says he has to be in year1 doesn't mean he automatically has the maturity and concentration to be able to sit and listen and learn quietly and sensibly He has always been spontaneous and erratic and struggled with his emotional control and he is just not ready.

Sorry I will stop now, I could go on all day. TBH its heartbreaking seeing the change in him and I really don't know what I'm going to do

All though ds is a May born and most certaibnly not the smallest in his reception class, I do dtsrt to wonder if he struggles a bit. May have many other reasons, but of course one thought is that he is simply not ready for that kind of structured education.

I've grown up in Germany. As an August born I started school with 7. Most kids were 6 ( had to be 7 by the end of May, mind you that's 25 years ago, it's a bit ore flexible now). I think that's a much more appropriate age. Of course the last couple of year at nursery (kindergarten)already have pre-school elements in them, but really as a prep for school rather than having educational targets.

I wish they would let the kids play for longer. Family and friends in Germany are always up in arms when they hear my son already goes to school.

But then there is the other problem. If they start later it's another year (or 2) of vastly expensive childcare. Somebody got to start looking at the whole system and really make decision that benefit the children most. The pressure starts definetly too early.

My DS2 is a July baby, and I feel that this might affect him in a few years (he will start Sept 2010), as he already seems 'young' for his age. He started at pre-school this week, so he'll get 2 full years there before he starts reception. If I waited until he was funded, then he'd only get 1 year, so be disadvantaged there in comparison to other children who would have had nearly 2 years at pre-school.

How does it work if you hold them back until say January? Would they hold a place at the school? The school we would hope to send him to (DS1 is already there) is always well over-subscribed, so would worry about getting a place if we bucked the trend.

Hi Lingle - I really didnt want mine to start school before they were 5 years old in any case, and they attended montessori nurseries throughout the reception year.

Have not read the wshole thread but presume someone has already stated that the schools (in England anyway) will NOT hold open a place for your child for the year they are missing. This I fully understand.

You, however will get the funding to remain at nursery if you so choose for that year. Ours went part time to nursery and I grandually built the hours up for the final bit, so they were used to going out 5 mornings a week.

DS1 slotted straight into yr 1 without a prob and made friends easily. He was not behind in anything at all. We later moved house and subsequently schools and that was where our problems began. He was bullied and now is home educated.

DS2 - we did similar as above, but he is very shy and although he enjoys school when he gets there and is popular, he does 'panic' when going in. (Prob has no relevance to starting school late as he was nervy at nursery, but just giving all the info I have).

Personally, I do recommend leaving the starting age, if you feel it is too much for your littly to be dealing with when just 4 and still need to be kissed and cuddle all day long by mum

Oh Pesha........

Go on all day if you want to.
Thank goodness for the mixed class this year. Sounds like that could make all the difference to your little man, as there will now be lot of wrigglers to play with.

Forever - interesting that your child actually slotted into Year 1 ok. I've heard equally positive stories from people who moved over from abroad.
Just so you know, some English LEAs WILL allow you into reception at 5, vz Bradford and Leeds.

Ilkainnorthants: "Family and friends in Germany are always up in arms when they hear my son already goes to school."
I know what you mean. The expression on the faces of my Czech friends when I told them of the idea of DS2 going into an academic class at 4 is not one I've forgotten. It's best described as disgust.

FourArms - you probably need to tell us your LEA then someone from there may be able to answer the question. It varies between LEAs.

Re the secondary school transfer: that is the one area where Scotland apparently is strict - but in a different way to (some areas of) England. You are required to have done seven years at Pimrary School, so if you deferreand started a year later, you still have to do all 7 years at Primary School.

It seems much more sensible!

www.nfer.ac.uk/publications/other-publications/conference-papers/pdf_docs/PaperSSF.pdf

The above paper answers some of my questions about why we start so early. The extraordinary answer is that the decision was made in 1870 with a view to children finishing early so they could get out to work in the factories.......

it is more sensible, PB, IMO.

my sister worked as a primary school teacher, although recently changed to secondary (high) school. she said this is where you really see the effects of starting school too young. i hadn't even thought about it, but she brought up points i hadn't considered.

I did read somewhere (and cant for the life of me remember where!) that children in other parts of Europe do not start proper schooling until 7, and the results when they left school were very good.

I think we are one of the only areas who do start schooling at 4+ and think it is so sad for parents to miss so much of their formative years.

Forever:
In the Czech Republic they start at 6 or 7, with parents having a large degree of choice as to which it is.
My friends' daughters there (5.9 and 7.3). go to kindergarten but have not yet been taught to read. Or, rather, the 7-year-old has just started.

Expat - am interested in your sister's comments as they go against the "defer now and you'll suffer later" argument that the LEAs use. Is she saying that we expect too much of 11/12 year olds also?

Ok so what I'm about to say here is from the early 80's (showing my age) BUT my mum kept me out of school until I was 5 (much more normal in those days) and I then went into Yr 1 (called reception but not) and HATED it (apparently had major nightmares and stuff) as could already read, write and count but had zilcho social skills/confidence (still a problem.....). The teacher/school refused to accept that there was a problem and said that I HAD to stay in that class, chanting the alphabet when I could already read, for 3 terms. Two terms in I was moved to another school (neighbouring village) and flourished so it is worth thinking about that as well, it may just be the individual school or teacher that doesn't suit your child. I then missed out the final year of primary school and went to secondary school at 11. I know my folks had to fight fight fight to get this and I had to see educ psych from LEA. But it is possible. The actual law on education is not very detailed, most of it is just LEA policy and "guidance" which you can bypass if you push hard enough. They are obliged to take into account the needs of each child, who is YOUR child, not the school or LEA's. Keep pushing and don't take no for an answer. I will always be grateful to my mum for doing this for me, tho it was majorly embarrassing at the time.....

Despite all that academic precociousness it seems I still can't type - meant to say I started secondary school at 10, ie a whole year early. And I'm born in March.

lingle she works in the US, where they don't do secondary school. instead, they go to high school at 14. most authorities have cut offs of, say, April. where if you're born after April you wait till the following year to start first grade. kids are usually 6 when they start first grade, which is full-time.

it's just one of those differences that have come about because their research has shown it's more condusive to learning.

I know of a child born in August 3 months premature with continuing problems because of prematurity. His parents have had constant struggles with education authorities to try and get him put in the year into which he should have been born.

New to all this messaging but have had experience of the education system - with me, in the end, I just had to sit down and read all the Education Acts - boring I know - but the 1946 (or some year near then) one, for instance, states that a child of 10 years and 6 months has to be placed in a school providing an appropriate level of education for their need. All the National Curriculum and SATS stuff has actually helped because there are now detailed records which can be used to show the level the child is at and the level the school is able to provide. That part doesn't help the infants but knowing the law can help in your struggle in whatever area.

30plus - no child has to be placed in a school. Home education is perfectly legal.
A child must be receiving an education suitable to their age ability and aptitude, and that can be either at school or otherwise. Just putting another choice for parents in a quandry or not happy with what they have been offerred.

v interesting 30Plus. Are there any online resources you're aware of?

sorry - not read the whole thread but v interesting thread. I have twin boys (19 august b'days)and I started them in year 1, much to the horror of the head as I was a governor at the time!
The boys went to a brilliant nursery (on a farm so very hands on learning) 5 mornings a week, also grew in confidence in comparison to their peers who we were still in touch with from pre school.
they did struggle in year one and we have taken up Kumon English to back up their reading and writing. However, I see other summer babies in their class who are still struggling so think this is more related to their age rather than deferring entry.
Boys are now in year 4 - they will probably never catch up with the eldest in the class but they are doing better than some!!
I had to be strong to defer, other mums thought I was being too precious - it just wasn't right to pack them off to school in a uniform and expect them to concentrate all day (pressure to go full time by oct half term) when they were only just 4!!
I have two other children and was studying a post grad degree at the time so hardly kept them back for a bit of company. some things are just too important.....

V interesting Peony.

At the school nursery gate yesterday they said to me: "The most important thing of all is not to put them off".
which sounds like the way you were thinking...
Are there quite a few boys in Year 1 who've been in reception but can't read yet? I suspect there may be....