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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Taking days off in term time - your advice please

54 replies

MrsCurly · 05/09/2008 21:21

My daughter has just started school and is going to be bridesmaid at my sister's wedding which is taking place in term time in November at the other end of the UK (where all my family live).

The wedding is on a Saturday, but there is a family party on the Friday night. There is no way we would make that if we left home straight after school on Friday as it is a 7/8 hour drive. We are also going to have a problem getting back in time for school on Monday unless we spend all day Sunday getting back (the trains are really slow on Sundays)

Ideally I'd like to travel down by train on Thurs and back on Monday. Do you think is it acceptable to take her out of school for three days during term time? I could just travel down on Friday instead which would mean taking just two days. Or of course travel back on Sunday which I am loathe to do but would just mean taking her out for one day.

It is a really special time for our very close family, and I'd really like to be there as much as I can, and I know DD feels the same.

To complicate things a little she is very shy at school and very clingy, which is completely the opposite of how she was at nnursery, but I am hoping by November she will have settled a lot more and this will be less of an issue.

What would you do and when / how should I tell the school?

Thank you!

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SoupDragon · 05/09/2008 21:55

Yes, you were asking for permission. The form is asking for "leave of absence" to be granted. If you take them without permission, they are therefore truant. But that's your choice.

SoupDragon · 05/09/2008 21:56

I have a s*dding form in front of me so clearly I am not 100% averse to taking them out of school (with permission) I wouldn't take them without permission though and I wouldn't book before gaining that permission.

SoupDragon · 05/09/2008 21:57

We took DS1 out for a whole week in his 1st half term of reception. As his teacher said, "I'm sure he'll catch up on his colouring in."

ChasingSquirrels · 05/09/2008 21:59

I agree it was my choice.
I also knew it would not be granted - but think it would be extremly bad manners just to take him and not to let them know, hence as there is a form I filled it in, rather than just writing a letter with dates.
So technically yes I was asking permission - but I didn't view it as such as I know that their policy is not to grant permission in other than exception circumstances.

Original poster

MrsCurly · 05/09/2008 22:00

Yes all she seems to do is colour in!
We're in Scotland so it might be different legally. The council do a big league table of unauthorised abscences from school so it is a hot issue.

Thanks for all your advice. I'll speak to her teacher and maybe the head next week.

OP posts:

ChasingSquirrels · 05/09/2008 22:01

but you presumably get permission - it isn't given at our school - blanket policy.
why should a parent at one school (yours) be able to take it, when one at another (ours) can't.
tbh I don't care, and will continue not to care for a good few years. I also won't take the mick, but am taking 5 days this school year (again already booked) and will probably do it for a number of years.

SoupDragon · 05/09/2008 22:13

If they have a league table of unauthorised absences, then it is in their interests to grant permission where possible. This means the absence isn't unauthorised.

'Squirrels, for the same reason some schools have good teachers and some bad I think our head (and the one before her) grants permission provided your child isn't always off and isn't doing SATS.

As an aside, don't ever take your child out for the last week of Y6. I've still not forgiven my parents for doing that to me and it's long ago in the dim distant past!

ChasingSquirrels · 05/09/2008 22:18

will bear the yr6 point in mind!

LittleBella · 05/09/2008 22:24

people keep saying that schools have the right to fine you

Surely they have to take you to court? Surely it's up to a magistrate to impose a fine, not a school?

It's a rare (and mad) mag who would impose a fine for a one off absence.

Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 05/09/2008 22:30

No - they don't have to take you to court LB. It's a fixed penalty notice.

LittleBella · 05/09/2008 22:30

So how do they enforce it?

Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 05/09/2008 22:31

Halfway down here

LittleBella · 05/09/2008 22:31

Is there any control about which parents they are more likely to give a fixed penalty notice to? Who makes the decision? Governors or HT? What's the criteria? Is it open and accountable?

I'm astonished by this.

Kbear · 05/09/2008 22:34

My friend is an Educational Welfare Officer and she told me that the EW office are far too busy with children who rarely attend school due to home life, caring for parents, truancy, abuse etc that they are not interested in a child that is taken out of school for two weeks once a year and the EWO wouldn't do anything about it or even follow it up. Not that this condones taking them out of school but seriously, there are no consequences, the school told me that when I asked. They don't have the power to fine you.

MrsBates · 05/09/2008 22:34

Our school doesn't mind for important family stuff. I hate having to follow that rule anyway. Learning about the world isn't confined to school after all. Would be different once they are exam age I guess but right now I think it's fine.

Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 05/09/2008 22:34

We issued some fixed penalties at our school last year. The children had attendance of about 70%. Usually the decision is taken by the Education Welfare Officer and a parent would have had home visits and warning letters before a penalty was issued.

LittleBella · 05/09/2008 22:36

Cross posted with your link

I would love to know how they are being used.

LittleBella · 05/09/2008 22:43

Did it work? Has attendance gone up as a result?

RustyBear · 05/09/2008 23:26

Our head teacher strongly believes that parents should not take children out of school for holidays - many heads think so too, but they authorise absences because a lot of unauthorised absences look bad to OFSTED. Our head has said that she is not particularly concerned with what OFSTED say, she's quite willing to fight her corner on the issue if it means that fewer children are actually missing school.
When she arrived last September she was shocked at the way holiday forms were given out & authorised almost automatically. So we no longer have 'holiday forms', anyone wanting to take their children out in term time has to come and ask for it face to face (she will make an appointment at 7am or 7pm if necessary for parents who work)Permission is rarely granted, except, as I said before, for weddings/major family events, funerals or other compassionate grounds.
Despite the fact that there are no consequences if unauthorised leave is taken, we have found that most parents hate the idea of having unauthorised abscences on the end of year report, and the level of non-medical absences has dropped dramatically - and without a corresponding rise in 'illness' which the more cynical among us were expecting.

There have also been rumours that in future OFSTED will also be looking at the level of non-medical absences authorised by a school, but I haven't been able to confirm that - does anyone working in school admin know?

pointydog · 05/09/2008 23:27

In Scotland tbey'll either authorise it or they won't. If they don't, you get a letter telling you that it is unauthorised (unless things have changed in teh last couple of years). That's it. It doiesn't matter.

pgwithnumber3 · 05/09/2008 23:31

The only problem my father (who was a head teacher) found when parents removed children from school was that in some circumstances, the child could miss a vital part of say, a Maths stage and it takes a long time for them to pick it up once they return. A couple of days shouldn't be a problem though.

Califrau · 05/09/2008 23:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 06/09/2008 10:04

Rusty - the Dfes are cracking down further on persistent absence - 20% absence whether authorised or not. If a school has more than a certain number of PA children (something like 2.5% of the children on roll) then from September they will get visits, presumably from OFSTED but I'm not sure. The visits will mean all absence policies and procedures will be picked over, so schools will have to be seen to be implementing good practice. Not authorising term-time holidays willy-nilly will be part of that I expect.

LB - the families who were fined last year moved schools - possibly to avoid the Rottweiler attendance officer (me ) and our fab EWO. They didn't know that the school they moved to is also looked after by the same EWO. Overall our attendance has improved but I am on the backs of the PA families all the time. I do have sympathy for children who have medical issues - my own dd's attendance languishes around the 80 - 85% mark, but parents who just can't be bothered to get their kids into school really wind me up. An odd few days taken in term-time if you otherwise have good attendance is fine IMO - in primary at least.

LittleBella · 06/09/2008 21:11

Blimey I'm surprised it's so easy to move schools - why would another school want to accept children whose attendance record had been so bad that their parents had got fined?

yogabird · 06/09/2008 23:11

just say she's ill?

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