why do they put kids in different groups in Y1 to Reception and what do they mean?

[imaginaryfriend]

My dd started Y1 today and has been so upset since getting home. All her previous friends in her group are still in a group together but she's been moved to a different group. It doesn't sound like a huge deal but if you knew how shy dd is and how hard it was for her to settle into school life.

So I'm just wondering if anybody can explain to me how the system works? Is it likely she might be moved group during the next few weeks?

We have blue, red, green and yellow.....

hmc, sorry, I probably didn't put that right. She only used those terms to the parents, the kids were grouped in colours and they thought of themselves as top, middle, bottom etc. If they bothered. I don't think they all did. I spoke to quite a few mums who didn't know which colour group their child was in let alone which level it was. I do agree though - there was one boy who used to walk around bragging about being in 'top group' and laughing at those in the 'lazy group'. I never speak to dd about it in terms of levels, just colours, yet she's also got a sense of where she's placed.

This has happened to me too. DS1 is in the BOTTOM group now in Y1, from being in the second-to-top in Reception! I am but get the feeling it will all even out. If he remains in the bottom group for the rest of the week, I will see the teacher (shaking with fear and ready to crumble like a sandcastle instantly, of course...)

It has spurred me on, actually. I am so on top of his homework and reading, and am coaching him for next week's spelling test. I want them to see how clever he is! I have that "We'll show you" feeling - which is weirdly over-ambitious when we're talking about infant school.

How much depends on the child's behaviour level? DS1 is bright - reads fluently, very good at maths - but is "a handful"... Not naughty, but young, easily distracted, etc.

Would they put a clever-but-wayward child in the bottom group, because he might need more one-on-one attention? Or keep him out of the top group as he might distract the "swottier" types?

at teachers referring to groups in such a way! Unbelievable! (o, in case you were wondering how I am posting at 8.15am, I am on maternity leave at the moment!!!)
@low achievers', 'high achievers' in reception! And letting the parents know! The teachers in the Infants at my school would never do this!

I never tell kids that groups are according to ability. I will tell parents if they ask. Kids usually cotton on to the fact that certain children know a lot and that some groups may get harder work but I never make it obvious. They are only tiny. Why do they need to feel such immense pressure at that age?

I would put a child who is a 'handful' with his ability level as he is more iikely to progress and not be 'naughty' if he is motivated.

I am laughing at parents being scared to talk to the teacher! I am usually scared of what the parents are going to say to me!!

BEAUTIFUL I did that very thing that has you shaking - I gulped and asked the teacher if I could have a brief chat with her at the end of the day. I must've said it so quietly because I had then to repeat it . Anyhow she's got a staff meeting but she said if it's brief she can fit it in so I'm mentally learning my lines by heart. Be firm, be friendly, don't be too apologetic, be clear, be determined - chances are, knowing me, that I'll come away from it none the wiser as I'm rubbish at this kind of thing. I'd be much better if I could write it down rather than say it.

What I really don't want to come across as is pushy, annoying, neurotic, over-protective or arrogant that I know better than the teacher does.

Dd's Reception teacher was pretty tough and straight-talking. When I began doing parent helping with reading she immediately classed the groups as 'high achievers' and 'low achievers' and told me which ones would need the most help. I don't know for sure she uses these terms with all the parents though, but I wouldn't be surprised, she had a few angry mums by the end of the year.

I agree with pudding that putting a slightly unruly child with a lower ability group would lead to his behaviour being worse rather than better.

Good Luck with the chat. I'm sure it won't be a problem. {{}}

Thanks ninja. I feel like I need a stiff drink to spur me on!

Go girl! I think you've done the hardest part (honest). I don't think you'll come over as arrogant or pushy or anything like it. The really arrogant/pushy ones would just go in guns blazing, wouldn't they? I bet you'll be adorable!

Good luck! Let me know how it goes!!!

Pudding25, thanks so much for your comments. So nice to hear what teachers do/think/etc. For some reason, I seem to see the teachers at DS1's school as some rare, exotic breed of animals, like lions in a zoo, to be approached with extreme respect and trepidation... So bonkers, i know.

Thanks BEAUTIFUL. Dp's just told me I'm going to totally mess it up so I'm not feeling completely confident. I suggested taking along her end of year report so that I could say 'see? she was classed as excellent with language and literacy' rather than just say 'I think she's great' or something. He thought that was a naff idea.

I was looking at a spelling thread a few moments ago and I wondered that if dd stays in this group will she miss out on things like the trickier spellings? Will she be given simpler reading books? How will it affect her education if she's not placed at the right level?

In my DD's school, reception is with class 1, class 2 is with class 3 and class 4,5and 6 are together.
But it's a small village school with only 70 pupils!

Rb there are 60 pupils in dd's year alone, split into two classes. So we probably can't really compare notes can we?

This is probably too late, but at my dd's school, there are lots of groups. The 'home' group is where she starts and ends the day and where they do everything other than reading, writing and numeracy, which in Yr 1 is a lot of the time! This group is mixed ability, can be changed every so often if there are issues, and can encompass friendship groups but this year my dd knows no-one else on her table (they mixed up the classes at the end of reception). Last year she was the only girl in her group .

However, for reading, literacy and numeracy tasks, dd is with others of a similar ability (some children she knows, some not). However, these groups are task specific, and dd spends less time in these.

Could it be your dd is not actually doing her 'work' in this 'lower' group, but doing art and all the other bits that Yr 1 do? If the school are taking it slowly, they may not be properly defined ability groups yet, so the only group she may identify with may be her 'home' group.

Of course, if this is the case, and your dd is sad about not being with her friends, then mentioning it to her teacher is a good idea. I just wouldn't worry just yet about her being left behind. It certainly isn't in the teacher's interests to have a sad child, or one who is working at a different level to other children in her group.

I hope your chat went well. From my experience teachers are happy to explain why something is the way it is, and also happy to hear what a child may be saying at home about school

IF - don't worry about it affecting her schooling forever. I think year 1 is when most children really start to develop their skills so I'm sure they'll be looking out for this and as others have said they'll do a lot as a whole group.

Let us know what the teacher says

IF, she won't miss out on the trickier spellings.

Ds was in teh bottom group for most things for the first 5 years of his schooling. (He is now Y5 and has just moved into middle set for both literacy adn numeracy hurrah!)
I found out from speaking with friends who had children in higher groups that all children were doing the exact same work, but it was explained slightly slower / differently for the lower groups. But they all still work through the same curriculum.

Let me know how you got on with the teacher today

I'm so bemused as to how the Reception teacher at this school even had the opportunity to group the children according to ability. In the Early Years we are moving towards a system whereby all learning should be through play, which is carefully furthered and enhanced by adults in the classroom who constantly observe the children playing and adapt the resources and set new challenges accordingly. These children should not be sitting at tables unless they choose to do so! The only direct learning should be things like mat time for phonics, number work etc. Are any of you who have children in Foundation Stage actually aware of learning happening like this, or are they all still being sat down and made to do worksheets? Personally I'm quite alarmed by this...

Sorry, that was a total hijack... but any answers would be received with great interest!

Hope you got on fine with the teacher today, and received a satisfactory answer. There is no way that this grouping issue will affect you child's future. As Hippipotami says, all children cover the same curriculum, just at a different rate. And if this year 1 teacher is worth her salt, she'll change the groups as the children mature and develop. Incidentally, I'd really like to get my hands on that Reception teacher. Being 'straight-talking' is not an excuse for being unprofessional...

Please excuse any horrible spelling mistakes, btw. My new FS children have tired me out!!

IF like other posters my understanding is that they tend to be grouped differently for different things. I know from your previous postings though that you DD got off to a flying start in reception and I can perfectly understand why you would want this to continue in year 1 - especially as this is where the work really starts! I hope it went well with the teacher today. I am sure they are just taking a little time to sort everyone out.

EllieorOllie - I just wanted to respond to your post as you raise a separate issue of the EYFS. My opinion of this is that actually it is the governments way of getting children into education much younger than many parents want them to. Frankly some children are ready at 4.5 or 5 to sit down at a table and learn, others are not. From what I have read this has been put in place because they have identified that many children are already behind by 3 because their parents don't speak to them, interact with them etc. So we are all now forced into, if we want our children to attend any sort of care/early years education, this scheme. They have to be monitored, photographed etc all day rather than having complete free time and normal interaction with their carers. As regards 'learning through play', it is great in some instances however I very much get the feeling that it is all contrived situations where children are expected to react in a certain way otherwise they don't 'pass'. If I had the choice I would remove my children completely from this but under this nanny state sadly I have no choice.

EllieorOllie - IF's dd is in Year 1, which is Key Stage 1 isn't it, and not Foundation Stage?
Hence the more 'formal' learning. Dd has just gone into Y1 adn we were told at a meeting with the teacher that the class will not contain desks until after the half term so it will be very much like reception, but after the half term there will be much more formal learnign at desks.

So how did it go?

EllieorOllie my dc's school are very much learn through play in Reception. The groupings were for focussed learning tasks and small group work only - certainly not for the vast majority of the day.

Unfortunately the school isn't too hot on transition issues and the children are having to adapt pretty quickly to a 'sit-down' curriculum

hth

Thanks for all the responses.

EllieorOllie, just to clarify in YR the groups were for reading and only occasional group activities, most of the day was spent doing other things such as PE, singing, 'free flow' when the two Reception classes mingled and a bit of carpet time. It was mostly learning through play but the children were still placed in general ability groups.

Hello ANMHI, how is your dd finding Y1?

Ok, the meeting. I actually felt quite sick beforehand. I got a friend to watch dd and I sat in the classroom with dd's teacher after most of the kids had gone. She was really really approachable and calm, I'm so pleased we have her this year, it made me realise how tough it was with dd's YR teacher who was terrifying!

Anyhow I started by just asking why dd was the only one not kept together with her other group-mates from YR and she said that there were 8 children who came in from the two previous YR classes who had all been classed as 'above average' in ability and she simply couldn't fit them all on one table so she'd put 6 there and had had to fit the remaining 2 into the rest of the class. She did say this would be changing in the next few weeks as she got to know the children's abilities. She seemed to be saying that dd would be moved up, whether by 1 group or 2 I haven't a clue. What was best though was the lovely things she said about dd that she has a 'perfect attitued to learning' in that she keeps trying until she gets something and that even though she's very quiet in the class she seems happy and she is participating 'occasionally' in carpet time. So now I'm just hoping that she'll get moved and she'll feel even happier. What a blessing to have an approachable teacher though!

Having said all that dd came home with her first reading book from Y1 tonight and it's something she read in November last year I asked her why she didn't mention this to the teacher and she said 'I was too shy'. So I might have to mention that or shall I leave it? Do they all automatically go down a few reading levels when they move into Y1?

Dd said that today they did spellings individually out of the classroom with someone she'd never met before. She said it was all spelling sounds, long vowel sounds I think. She said she got 7/10 which I thought was ok as I've never done any of this at home with her. Is it things like:

ai ay
ee ea y
ie igh y
oo
or
ur

Is there anything I can look up to help her with this?

Sometimes, I will give an easy reading book as the first book, just to ease a child into yr 1 and not put too much pressure on them with the first lot of homework. Has she got a reading diary? I am sure that the teacher (who sounds really good) will also be doing reading assessments with the children.

If she can do long vowel sound spellings and get 7/10 with no practise, then I would not be worrying in the slightest about her ability! You sound like you have a lovely, bright little girl! Honestly, I don't think anyone in my class lasy yr could have spelt long vowel sound words correctly in the 2nd wk of yr 1 - and the kids in my school are really bright, get way above average SATS results and get in to some of the top London private schools - so she is doing great!!! Just keep encouraging her. Are you a member of a library? Take her to the library and let her choose some books she likes to read. Read together and discuss the stories - not always though as it is nice to just read for pleasure.

Hi IF - I am glad your meeting went well. I agree with pudding25 in that sometimes things are a bit mixed up at first - my DDs first book last week was the sort of thing she was reading before Christmas last year! However I approached the teacher and we are back on track. I think the key is to keep communicating, although I would say I do find this difficult as I feel a bit like pushy mother! They clearly know that you DD is bright and I think you should now just watch and see, however if nothing happens you need to speak to her again. My DD can also be quite quiet and I do worry a bit that perhaps she doesn't show what she can do at school or can be drowned out by the more lively characters. However I have confidence that it will all be ok in the end and also that I need to help her develop more confidence! Having said that she has just started Y1 in a new school and it is going absolutely brilliantly - I am so happy!
Good luck.