Why do some mums go all weird when new classes are announced?

[DrNortherner]

It so bloody competetive sometimes and it annoys me.

Ours find out next Monday. Ds is dreading it

dd1 has the same class all the way through reception-Y2

they just move rooms and teacher, all children stay together

is that not the norm?

is normally oliveoil

Ours have been split because of the mixed class thing and it is strictly done on age, not ability. This seems to have passed some people by though.

At my DC school reception is split by age, year 1 is done alphabetically, year 2 is, apparently, streamed. The school doesn't tell you this though.

I wonder generally (and my DS is not school-age yet) how parents decide that a teacher is 'slightly dodgy'. Playground gossip? Children coming home and telling tales?

I'm guessing they don't sit in on a class.

I remember a particularly millitant (and unpleasant) group of parents getting one of my old primary school teachers sacked. I was a teen by then, but I was very upset about it.

She used to shout, and had a bit of a cross face, but was a reasonable teacher and a kind woman.

The children didn't like her much, and in the end this led to the parents pressuring the governers.

Teachers are human and have feelings. This is often not bourne in mind, imo.

DD's school they have one class per year, so no worries - although I'd be quite glad if she could get away from some of the little shits she's stuck with!

I have been to see the head on one occasion, because my struggling dd2 had been separated from the only friend she had made and was distraught. I got nowhere and dd2 fell apart and ended up homeschooled for a term while other issues were addressed. The same thing was done the following year when she had just managed to make another friend and I decided it wasn't worth it to go in. Again she struggled so this year I have been in in advance and said I would like her to be with one of these children (given a list)and SENCO has been very helpful. You don't always know the background!

we have that too. i think they have nothing else to worry about. or are just permanently worried and need a cause to take it out on.
its important to convey your strength to your child so they can follow in it, rather than have a stress spaz at every little thing that happens

we have that too. i think they have nothing else to worry about. or are just permanently worried and need a cause to take it out on.
its important to convey your strength to your child so they can follow in it, rather than have a stress spaz at every little thing that happens

Tis very annoying.

Also, I never really understand the concern over split classes. It's pretty obvious that in a single year class there is a massive range of ability (in infants anyway) and that teachers are teaching to several different level all the time. A split class is no different!

I don't agree that a split class is the same as teaching a 'normal' class. In a 'normal' class you have a set range of ages and a of course a range of abilities. In a Y1 class for example the children will be maximum 12 months apart in age. In a mixed class they could be 24months apart - that is a hell of a lot in terms of their development (not academic. At my DDs school the current reception children are all being mixed with the new reception intake. The difference here is huge imo and only a very good teacher will cope with it well.

But won't they usually choose children to go into a split class more carefully? Perhaps it works differently in other schools but certainly at our school - the 10 reception children that joined 20 yr1s were all autumn born children and most had older siblings in the school. Ds2 was already reading too so the disparity in ability was quite small and I'm sure that's why he went into that class over other children. The difference in age was negligible as the yr1s tended to be the younger ones or the ones that were still getting to grips with reading - ds2 is higher up the reading scheme than some of them even now.

My DS1 is just coming to the end of 2 years of a split Y3/4 class. He was absolutely fine about it, perfectly happy, we went along with it (though not all parents did by any means!), decided the school knew what they were doing/ our child isn't the centre of the universe etc etc. Sensible well balanced parent, you cry! However, I believe DS learned practically nothing in Y4. Really. Suited him fine having the (NQ) teacher HAVING to pour her energy into the young, new (and majority) Y3s whilst most of the Y4 swanned along!

Were the DCs all carefully selected according to gender and ability mix? Depends whether 'alphabetical' counts!

Anyway, we have been assured that Y5 will be 'catch-up central' and at least if there were to be a 'duff' year for DS1 it was Y4, not hopefully 6!

You might say 'Ah, bad school, didn't do it right etc etc' because it patently didn't work for most of the DCs, esp the Y4s. However, THEY felt they'd started with a Clean Slate where everyone had a 'fair go'.

However, the Infants had to do a Y1/2 mix (plus a Y2) which went quite well for us with our Y2 boys. Not sure the Y1 girls, selected on age, ability and maturity would agree, though!

When it comes down to it I feel your sneery 'Haven't these parents got anything better to do?' comments can only come from parents who haven't yet encountered the potentially socially devastating effect a pulled apart friendship can have on a shy sensitive soul or the educational disadvantage that can result when the anticipated 'gelling' of a class fails to happen. Or a mathematical, geeky DC is placed in a class with a teacher whom you already KNOW to be hot on art and say dismissive of the 'harder' stuff- you just KNOW it ain't gonna work, sometimes. And may damage your DCs confidence into the bargain. Bearing in mind we're possibly talking 6 and 7 year olds, here.

In an ideal world yes, all DCs would be carefully graded into perfect classes. We also recognise that all will not always go our DCs way but feeling unhappy or worried about the class decisions that are made doesn't necessarily label a parent as 'having nothing better to do'. They may have some genuine concerns. And as for 'teacher knows best', they will do their utmost to try and be fair as far as they are able but we all here on MN endlessly trumpet about how we know how G&T our DCs are- yet unrecognised by the dumb teacher- yet feel other parents are being TOTALLY unreasonable when their knowledge of their own DC is at variance with the teacher's, a view that may seriously colour next year's class selections and your DC's enjoyment of school!

I heard recently that a group of parents had got my old Spanish teacher sacked. She was a very good teacher, but strict and expected hard work. She lost her job for that. Children whinged and the parents complained to the head. I thought that was shocking. No way would I have wanted to be one of those parents.

I do understand Tesla's point of view about the education though- if you felt your child wasn't learning, then you would have something to say and rightly so.

But as for friendships being torn apart- why would that happen just because they are in different classrooms for some of their lessons? That's not where they're supposed to do their talking anyway, is it? My dc's have changed classes every year since reception and they've never lost friends over it.

I think it is because schools seem to be very poor at consultation. Our old school had a 45 intake and so had mixed classes on a regular basis. It's now gone to single form entry (too many schools, not enough kids in our local area). Usually they did a straight class plus a mixed oldest/youngest class. This seemed to work sometimes, and not other times in the experiences of the parents (as the teachers don't share their experiences with parents it is difficult to know what they thought about it). So new headmaster comes in and decides that all the classes will now be mixed. A letter goes home saying this and saying that parents can come in and talk to the school. Great. But the session is the next week, and at 2pm, oh and it is totally clear that the decision has been made. Totally impossible for many parents to attend. So cue lots of very unhappy parents. Now in practice the new headmaster turned out to be a very good thing, and the mixed classes worked well, and the groups will I think be kept together for a few years (although in the past infant/junior mixes weren't allowed). But why was it not possible to let parents know in advance they were thinking about this and why, and what would be put in place to make it work, and who to talk to if you have a concern? Schools can just be very high handed at times, and it's not in synch with the rest of society anymore (ie doctors now get to tell you why they are giving you x medicine for example).

The parent school relationship is very disempowering IME, and we all know that whether our kids are happy and achieving in school is VERY important, and which teacher they have and what kids they share a classroom with matters a great deal.

At our new school in the US they mix up the classes every year and don't tell you which class you are in until the first day of term. This is crap I think as I 'd really like to be able to foster friendships for ds over the summer, and have no idea whether any of the grade 4 boys I know are likely to be in his class (we only had 6 weeks in last term, and ds did not make any friends and is very sad about it).

Ooh, Nooka! I got called 'a vile snob' and a 'middle class helicopter parent' for suggesting on another thread that I'd really like to know which class my DSs would be in next year so I could 'foster friendships' and verbally inoculate (!) my older DS against some of the behaviours and language he would encounter with some of the very much known Y4s who will re-enter his world for the first time since Y1. Forewarned is forearmed!

One reason I readily accepted the first ever Y3/4 mix at Ds1's juniors when he was about to enter Y3 was because they did their best to inform- not consult, mind! I so appreciate their hands were financially tied and I think the school did as good a job as they could, given the circumstances (though I don't know if I'd've given a mixed Y3/4 to a 22 yr old NQT...!). I was aware that the school were just telling us how it was going to be, but I appreciated the time taken at 7pm one evening to allow us to come in and talk about it. As I said, Y3 was fine (DS1 has always done better in the company of older kids, it's just the way he operates). But once a Y4 with the majority Y3's, we definitely saw some regression!

Someone said their child gets mixed every year- which is possibly why a new mix doesn't phase them! They will have been in a class with every possible mix in the year group. But a DS who has 'run' with the same gang for 2 years who suddenly finds himself 'on the out' AND who seriously lacks confidence and maturity already believes 'my mates won't want to play with me any more'- and it must be said that it WILL be harder for him to elbow his shy little elbows back in amongst his present gang of lads who will spend 6 1/2 hours a day in each others company.

Incidentally his Y3 class decision wasn't a carefully balanced process, weighing up this pro and that con: The Y2 teachers were told to split their classes into 4 ready for four Y3/4 combos in the Junior school. Our teacher rightly said she'd be pulling far too many friendship apart with the 16 Y2s she had in her class so she split hers into 3 groups. With less than 24 hours notice they were suddenly told 'All change!' Two yr 3 classes, please! So our teacher put two of her 3 groups into one Y3 and the other into the second Y3. She had had no intention of splitting my DS up from his mates but that was the way the mop flopped. I accept it as it was fully explained to me but it WILL impact on DS2's next year.

Finally, to reiterate the 'nothing better to do' issue - well, it's because I have far, far too much to do that I don't want to have to spend largely avoidable time sorting out 'issues' in DS2's life that most probably wouldn't have arisen if he had been able to stay with his gang of friends next year.

Teslagirl/Nooka, I come to this site when I need help and advise. I find myself with ds about to start 2nd year in class 3, which has a yr 3/4 mix and dd will be in there too, just starting yr3!! As unhappy as I was about that, the school managed to talk me round (him having extra responsibility etc and being a shy type I thought - ok), then I find out why he's in there. Basically in one year he has raised 1 sub level (from L2C in writing at end of KS1 to L2B one year later!)

Feel so let down.

What gets me the most is when I come on this site and find some mums attacking other mums for having concerns about teaching standards. What world do they live in where you would just trust teachers to 'get on with it'? I know my children well and have raised the question of his literacy twice this year and was made to feel neurotic!!

I have found another school but have the social groups to think about for both kids. They are happy there - but they are kids, their education is so important.

The teacher in this instance is working her probation and next year will be her first year full time, she is an ex parent who has trained on the job. She has let my son fall behind this year and now has him for another year and my dd for 2 years.

What if she is a bad teacher - what if by some maddness I am correct!! Do I just leave them to it??

I don't get it?

Our 'panic' is not about the teachers - every year they mix the classes so sometimes kids get split from friends if they mess around too much etc etc

I don't particularly like the fact that teachers have the authority to tell kids who to be friends with, but my DCs have always been fine with it so not affected me.

Some people have genuinely been really upset if their child is 'split' from a 'group' and I kind of understand that. It's the talk of the playground !

I am quite sensitive to this because I was split from my friends for the last year of juniors (I have no idea why) and as a result they stopped talking to me. It was the most miserable year of my life, and seriously damaged my ability to make friends when I moved on to secondary. The majority of your school life is spent in the classroom, the friendships you form there are then taken out into the playground. If you are split then you lose a lot of common experiences. It's also about who you are paired with duing lesson time, and who is on your table for group work. If these things change then you have to work out dynamics all over again. Some kids thrive on this, some are OK with it, and some really really struggle. As a parent you know which group your child is likely to fall into. Being concerned is surely a fairly normal reaction. If that's coupled with a teacher you are unsure of (and again "playground chatter" is pretty much the only knowledge any of us have to go on as schools do not release any infomation on whether teachers are sucessful, or indeed what approach they might have) then it can be a huge worry.

But clearly this is totally unreasonable and wrapping your child in cotton wool or being competitive. Hello - I just don't want my child to be sobbing about having no friends or failing to progress. My children's happiness and schooling does really matter, and I am somewhat shocked that any teacher should think it's not important.

Our school is so small that there is only one class per year anyway. I thought this was the case more often than not in primary schools, to be honest. No doubt we will have all this to come in secondary...

really at some posts here.

Do some people really think they can object to the teacher - is it OK for other children to have that teacher then?

Many schools have to have mixed classes. One near us has an intake of 45 - how can they do that in one class per year group?

Our intake is up to 80 and the bugbear here appears to be when classes are mixed up and kids are not with their friends.

However I suspect it's often the mums' friends tbh. Certainly those that go in and complain to the head (who probably has a very good reason for separating thei rdarlings).

nooka - being concerned is fine - it's getting teachers sacked and demanding your rights as a parent because of playground gossip that is ridiculous.
i made the 'wrapping in cotton wool' comment and i stand by it as a mother whose son was split up from all of his friends. yes i mentioned my concerns at the normal parent's evening and asked them to keep a particular eye on his social welfare, but i didn't make an appointment with the head to demand he switched classes. and i don't demand he gets preferential treatment because he's a bit of a flower. it's my job to instil confidence in him, and i expect the teachers to back me up - not cater to his/my every whim or i'll get them sacked.

Oh well, I think that when it comes to school any "rights" parents may or may not have are limited in the extreme. It would be a poor head that sacked a teacher simply on the basis of one or two "precious" parents, and actually given how difficult it is to dismiss people in the public sector, I'm not sure I really believe that was all there was to it. If it was a very large number of parents then there clearly is something wrong, either with the teacher (and hey I am sure you are aware that there are such things as bad teachers) or with the way the school handled the situation. I do think schools need to communicate better with parents about their decision making, not just assume that parents will think that whatever the teachers decide is just fine. I'm not saying that on the whole it won't be, or that teachers are not trying to act in the interests of all the children, but there are very few other areas of life where adults are not involved in important decisions that affect them or their families.

Well I'm afraid I totally objected to one of the teachers this year and I didn't wait till the class lists were announced either. I started my "campaign" some time ago.

Yes I do think I can object to a teacher - a teacher that I have been told (by the headmaster) has poor discipline and an unstructured class. A teacher who the (now) Acting Head told a friend of mine has "issues and we are trying to support her". A teacher who has a long list of current unhappy parents.

No I don't think its right that other kids in my dd's year have to have her. I think she should be sacked if she's as bad as the other staff say she is. However the other parents didn't make as much fuss as me and my dd ain't in her class and I'm over the moon.

DD has dyslexia and the last thing she needs is a crap teacher. Though I agree that no child needs a crap teacher.